"Girls are skipping school to avoid sharing gender neutral toilets with boys" - Mail on Sunday article

[Sunkisses]

Great article in the Mail on Sunday today about the awful impacts on girls of being forced to share loos with boys at school. With quotes from a female GP about the health and psychological impacts of girls not having single-sex loos, Stephanie Davies-Arai from Transgender Trend, and David Davies MP

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7542005/Girls-skipping-school-avoid-sharing-gender-neutral-toilets-boys.html

www.rt.com/uk/470350-unisex-toilets-primary-school/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

A little.bit more info on the toilets at the school for the benefit of the doubters.

No floor to ceiling doors
Incidents of peeking

I feel like turning the smugly "inclusive" statements around to make a point.

"Unisex toilets are one of ways to make female students feel less safe and less comfortable at schools."

That's not more information, it's just a rehash of the Mail's article.

I've said multiple times on here anyway that I don't agree with this. If schools want to have unisex/mixed sex toilets then it requires investment and designing toilets that are fit for purpose. I don't agree with them simply re designating old style single sex toilets as mixed sex.

But then I've already said this multiple times on this thread and you are willfully ignoring and misrepresenting what I said so I don't know why I'm bothering.

You clearly don't want any sort of discussion nor are bothered by any.of the other issues that surround toilets in schools. The trans gender issue is not the only concern that schools have.

It seems that you want single sex toilets, in the old fashioned style, and that's it. Regardless of the many problems that they result in and regardless of the issues that they create for many girls. You dismiss girl on girl bullying as being not that important because it doesn't involve boys but for girls who are on the receiving end of it it can be devastating. If schools stick with single sex toilets, in the traditional style, then they have to come up with plans that eradicate bullying in the toilets because the fear of that does exactly what the parents in this article are complaining about - it stops girls from using toilets at school, with all of the inherent risks. But it seems that unless the problem involves boys or trans gender issues then you aren't bothered by it.

Why is that?

Girl on girl bullying is a completely separate issue to toilets.

Bullying should he dealt with. You dont throw boys into the mix too in what are clearly not suitable facilities.

Girls bullying does not negate the need for female onle facilities

Can I at this point gently suggest that not engaging with those with whom conversation seems unlikely to be productive is an option we could choose to take.

I agree Sarah. It's constant derailing on here.

Why is that?

kittens you are right. Uts all along the lines of not all women have a uterus therefore they aren't real women so we can include men in the definition

I know it's tempting but refraining from offering any further sustenance is usually the most effective option.

I expect the one party willing to take it on will most likely be the one no one wants to vote for fir other reasons.

Will be interesting to see what happens really

Bullying should he dealt with. You dont throw boys into the mix too in what are clearly not suitable facilities.

I'm not advocating throwing boys into the mix. I'm advocating changing the design of school toilets so that they don't offer a place for bullies to hide away from adults.

I don't get why every conversation about girls and women has to involve males somehow. The issue of many girls refusing to use single sex school toilets pre dates any mixed sex/trans debate by decades.

I don't understand why it's only now that anyone gives a damn?

Self restraint, everyone!

So anyway....when we had our mixed toilets at work, the women successfully reclaimed them after we'd had them withdrawn.

We were all grown women and I'm angry on behalf of any girls who are unable to use toilet facilities because boys are in there.

Sorry, I meant withdrawn the single sex status (although they may as well have taken them away as we didn't want to use them).

The kids aren't able to protect themselves and their rights yet so we have to do it for them. Doing so will continue to make absolutely furious, and we're going to keep doing it anyway.

I understand why the parents in these cases don't want to identify themselves but I wish there was a way to let them know how many people have their backs if needed. My niece is at a Catholic school and so hasn't had to deal with this yet, but her mum is already braced for it.

It's been framed in a way so that concerned parents are dismissed or shamed even for speaking out (as I discovered on another related matter at my child's school).

Collectively, parents could make an impact and I hope (unfortunately to the detriment of more girls) that as more light is shone on this and the realisation that the public aren't behind mixed sex facilities that more parents will speak out.

Good to hear about women being able to reclaim toilets for single sex use HandsOffMyRights. And yes, that's why we need to do the same for our children.
As someone with extensive experience of dealing with bullying in schools (as opposed to a self identified expert) I can assure people that single sex toilets are not and have never been a significant factor in bullying, other than offering opportunities for bullying because of lack of adult supervision.

If anyone wants to start a thread on bullying rather than repeatedly attempting to derail this thread I'll contribute and we can discuss the factors and dynamics that relate to girls, bullying, victims and schools.

This is so awful, there's no way I'd have used the toilets if they were mixed sex when I was at school.

And the only female school bully I remember would've been worse if boys were present as she thought (correctly in some cases) that it impressed them. This is such a backwards policy for girls education.

Men always much more scathing about other men I guess because they know what they say in male only company. Who hasn’t been there when women exclaim how lovely x is yet other men present roll their eyes or attribute negative motives to other men’s behaviour. I think as women we can be too naive.

Who hasn’t been there when women exclaim how lovely x is yet other men present roll their eyes or attribute negative motives to other men’s behaviour.

I had this experience when I first started high school. There was one boy that all the other boys loathed on sight, or so it appeared from the girls' perspective. At first we thought the boys were being mean. Then, gradually, over maybe six months or so the one boy revealed himself to be a creepy sex pest. As an adult he has done time for rape at least twice that I know of.

I have never forgotten how much quicker the boys were to recognise him as a wrong un. Still don't know if they heard it on the male grapevine that we weren't party to or if it was a 'gives off bad vibes' thing they recognised though.

You clearly don't want any sort of discussion nor are bothered by any.of the other issues that surround toilets in schools. The trans gender issue is not the only concern that schools have.

This thread is about mixed sex toilets in schools. You are the one who brought up the transgender issue in this thread.

You dismiss girl on girl bullying as being not that important because it doesn't involve boys but for girls who are on the receiving end of it it can be devastating.

You have failed to explain how adding the risk of rape or sexual assault by boys to the already present risk of bullying by other girls improves the situation for girls.

I can assure people that single sex toilets are not and have never been a significant factor in bullying, other than offering opportunities for bullying because of lack of adult supervision.

So they are a factor then? Unless you put staff in the toilets how will you stop bullying in the toilets when adults cannot see what's going on?

The new style open plan toilets remove that problem.

Can I at this point gently suggest that not engaging with those with whom conversation seems unlikely to be productive is an option we could choose to take.

Oh oh oh but, 'single sex toilets in the old fashioned style'

You have failed to explain how adding the risk of rape or sexual assault by boys to the already present risk of bullying by other girls improves the situation for girls.

I've explained that I am not supporting simply making single sex toilets mixed sex.

I support new open plan toilets that open direct onto a corridor that can easily be monitored by staff. They do stop bullying.

Can I at this point gently suggest that not engaging with those with whom conversation seems unlikely to be productive is an option we could choose to take

So about girls getting UTIs because schools are forcing them to share toilets with boys

Pretty shit innit?