"Girls are skipping school to avoid sharing gender neutral toilets with boys" - Mail on Sunday article

[Sunkisses]

Great article in the Mail on Sunday today about the awful impacts on girls of being forced to share loos with boys at school. With quotes from a female GP about the health and psychological impacts of girls not having single-sex loos, Stephanie Davies-Arai from Transgender Trend, and David Davies MP

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7542005/Girls-skipping-school-avoid-sharing-gender-neutral-toilets-boys.html

I support new open plan toilets that open direct onto a corridor that can easily be monitored by staff.

But parents and children hate them. See the articles I posted about schools in Cardiff and Port Talbot.

If you really don't mind sharing thats tickety boo. Knock yourself out.

But for those who won't/can't share loos with the men, you can't give their consent to share, or compel them to.

In response to a woman who had previously suffered assault requesting a definitely female-only dorm, the hostel offered to block any other booking of that dorm so that she would be alone there.

So if you fancy a single room for the price of a hostel bed you can just exploit their extraordinarily stupid transgender policy? Good to know.

Nope all the fees will need to go up to cover the nights when there is a single occupancy surely?

So about girls getting UTIs because schools are forcing them to share toilets with boys

Pretty shit innit?

So about girls getting utis because they are forced to share toilets with bullies because the bullies exploit the secluded nature of toilets - shit isn't it?

But you have to admit that there is the risk of girls avoiding the loos through not wanting to go through shame (of the boys being in there), as well as the risk of gils being sexually assaulted by boys?

It's not an either/or thing here. I'd rather be bullied than sexually assaulted or humiliated.

So about girls getting utis because they are forced to share toilets with bullies because the bullies exploit the secluded nature of toilets - shit isn't it?

yes that is bad. Obviously. And making toilets mixed sex doesn't solve it in any way. Obviously. In fact it makes that particular problem even worse, because many bullies are male. Obviously. So let's continue to have single sex toilets to protect girls who feel uncomfortable, unsafe and humiliated when sharing toilets with boys. And also design school toilets so bullying is hard to do. You seem very concerned about the wellbeing of girls school so I'm sure you'll be on board with this obvious solution.

above should say girls AT school. Best leave no room for misunderstandings!

And also design school toilets so bullying is hard to do.

Exactly, which is what several schools local to me have done.

I think they've come up with excellent designs that remove the chance for bullies to control the toilets.

I'd rather be bullied than sexually assaulted or humiliated.

That minimises the effects of bullying tbh. I went to the funeral of a 15 year old last summer. She killed herself due to being bullied. The effects of bullying can be wide reaching. I don't agree that you can say that is better than another form of abuse.

Quick reminder of the article that sparked this thread in the first place: some schools are turning perfectly good single sex toilet facilities into supposedly unisex facilities simply by putting signs up, while the toilets themselves still contain cubicles with gaps top and bottom.

Not surprisingly, girls hate this (my boy would also hate this). As a result they're avoiding going to the toilet, resulting in dehydration and possible UTIs. That is the issue the article documents - not toilet avoidance for other reasons.

So can we stick to the topic? How best to stop schools enacting such a terminally dumb policy when it should be self-evident it's to the detriment of their pupils, particularly the female pupils.

Letter writing campaign to the secretary of state for education, anyone?

Do you know what? I haven’t actually checked with DS1 what the toilet situation is at his school

Will get on that.....

In my local school it is separate male and female toilet areas with multiple cubicles/urinals in each ‘room’

No plans to change this

The local school is the one my children went to

Both the colleges (one a 6th form) my children attend are the same

Exactly

Aww, look at that, even the apparent-derailer has finally admitted the importance of single-sex toilets for girls. :)

Isn't it actually against the law, what schools are doing? The Equality Act says that schools need to provide single sex spaces. Given the degree of institutional capture, it seems like the only way this horrible trend is likely to get reversed quickly is with a court case.

But it might be hard to get a test case, it's an embarassing issue to make yourself the poster child for.

Aww, look at that, even the apparent-derailer has finally admitted the importance of single-sex toilets for girls

I agreed that schools should design toilets that make bullying difficult. And self contained toilets cubicles are within the law so schools providing those aren't doing anything wrong.

Isn't it actually against the law, what schools are doing? The Equality Act says that schools need to provide single sex spaces

I agree, though as you say, the test case would be hard to bring.

There was a local uproar last year when a US school decided to solve the problem of drugs and bullying in the middle school toilets by removing all the doors so the adults could watch every move the children made in the toilets.
No one used them.
Drugs and bullying in the toilets problem solved.
Driving women and girls out of the public sphere will solve the problem of mixed sex facilities being dangerous for women and girls.

I remember at my high school there was more than one girls toilet and at breaks/lunch times we had time to wander within the school so had a choice of at least 3 (if memory serves me) or possibly more to use. There was always one toilet that the mean girls frequented that most other girls avoided and chose to use alternative ones. Also I can't ever remember going to the toilet without at least one friend with me either. So in my experience as a teen at high school it was always possible to avoid the mean girls.
Moving on to same sex toilets and the PP's quite rightly mentioning an increase in UTI's I'm wondering, as I haven't read the full thread - what about girls on their period and avoiding same sex toilets and potentially ending up with TSS due to being too embarrassed to change sanitary products in that environment? I remember it being a big talking point in the 90s and I've not seen this as a consideration for girls needing a safe space without the added anxiety of who is in the next cubicle.

Sorry in advance if this has been mentioned already.

I had previously bought into the principle that there should be female only toilets but wondered how much of anl “real” issue it was.

But the other day, I was chatting to my year 7 Dd with whom I haven’t really spoken much about trans issues, I was asking her how things were going at (her new, very large secondary) school & if there’d been any jostling in the corridors or problems in the toilets. She said no, then said she’d never go to the toilets in D block because they were mixed.
Luckily there are some girls only ones in another block she can use.

It sounds like a minor thing but it just really hit home to me and made it all personal. It’s not about inclusion or trans issues for her, she simply just doesn’t feel comfortable using the same toilets as boys at her massive new secondary.

But I see Chelsea Clinton is well on board with mixed sex facilities (Sunday times magazine). Very disappointed with her attitude.