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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Transgender manager sues after botched op costs him his leg

182 replies

Yeahnahyeah · 03/10/2019 21:06

I could weep.

city-press.news24.com/News/transgender-manager-sues-after-botched-op-costs-him-his-leg-20191001

4th Wave Now are also following botched surgeries by a different doctor, this one in the U.S.

4thwavenow.com/2019/08/26/catching-up-with-renowned-phalloplasty-surgeon-dr-curtis-crane/

It appears botched phalloplasties are the norm, not the exception. How could they not be? It is such a brutal proceedure.

OP posts:
CatalogueUniverse · 05/10/2019 15:29

Eating yourself to death is a mental health condition.

DuMondeB · 05/10/2019 15:35

Bariatric surgery is treatment for the fatness though, not the overeating. Some people can over eat without getting obese ( Rey physically active people, usually) we don’t treat those people with surgery.

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 15:35

So is starving yourself to death

The surgery is to treat the physical issues created by the mental health condition

If it was to treat the mental health condition what sort of surgery do you suggest anorexics receive or women experiencing post natal depression.
What surgery should a man who is suicidal receive?

Are you a fan of lobotomy maybe.

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 15:36

This is a massive derail tbh

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 15:36

This person lost a leg, and the other has been damaged as well.
Have you comment on that.

Velveteenfruitbowl · 05/10/2019 15:41

This is terrible. Clearly anyone who agrees to this surgery is either not informed property or doesn’t have capacity (because it would be simply insane to accept those risks). Yet another example of unethical medical experimentation on trans people. Deplorable.

namechange9357 · 05/10/2019 15:58

Agree velveteen.

5% failure rate is 1 in 20. I wouldn't get on a plane with a 1 in 20 chance of crashing. This surgery is being missold.

Having been a young woman struggling with my identity in this society and with my mental health, I just don't think young people in their early 20s should undertake non medically necessary surgery of this magnitude.

TequilaPilates · 05/10/2019 16:00

You talk as if it's a theoretical topic for women / mothers and that there is little knowledge on fwr which feels off to me tbh

I didn't raise it as an issue.

I simply questioned a pp who said that if a person threatens suicide it means that being transgender us either a mental illness or they are attempting to blackmail people.

My opinion is simply that these issues are not black and white. Sometimes surgery is used to treat an illness that therapy alone is not treating. Even if the original condition is not caused by a physical illness surgery might help to alleviate the symptoms.

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 16:04

'If mental health conditions are so easily treated with therapy (which is what you are all saying re transgenderism "they should be given therapy not surgery") then why is bariatric surgery necessary?'

You implied that posters who disagree with you think mental health issues are really treated with therapy.

That is not on.

You have changed your mind about what you were using about as well. The above quote talks about obesity not suicide.

TequilaPilates · 05/10/2019 16:15

Fraggling I'm not implying anything. That is what pp have said eg

Trans people should be given the mental health care they need to come to terms with the reality of their sexed bodies. They should never be surgical subjects. Never.

What is that statement saying if it isn't saying treat this with therapy not surgery?

There are other similar statements.

StyleItOutAgain · 05/10/2019 16:21

That poster does not say mental health issues are easily treated with therapy.

I would be very surprised if anyone had said that.

You are misrepresenting people.

OldCrone · 05/10/2019 16:22

Tequila You appear to be saying that people who are unhappy with their sexed bodies shouldn't have therapy. Can you explain why you think therapy would be an inappropriate treatment for such people?

If I have misunderstood, please explain your position a bit more clearly.

StyleItOutAgain · 05/10/2019 16:23

I also want to know which surgeries that poster would recommend for anorexics, women with pnd, men who are feeling suicidal.

TequilaPilates · 05/10/2019 16:26

Can you explain why you think therapy would be an inappropriate treatment for such people?

I don't know what the appropriate treatment is. I'm not an expert in the field. Drs who are experienced in this area are offering surgery, and have done for a long time. I am deferring to their knowledge and experience of treating people with gender dysphoria.

If they come forward and say that surgery isn't the right treatment but therapy is then I would support that too because I don't have their knowledge. Do any of you?

TequilaPilates · 05/10/2019 16:27

StyleItOutAgain

I'm not suggesting surgery for those conditions - what makes you think I am?

OldCrone · 05/10/2019 16:39

Interesting response, Tequila. Unlike you, I have decided not to outsource my thinking.

Not offering psychiatric treatment for gender dysphoria is quite a recent development, in the last couple of years, since it was decided that psychiatric treatment amounted to 'conversion therapy'. This was the result of lobbying by transactivist groups.

Surgery used to be only offered as a last resort, when non invasive treatments had failed. Patients had to confirm that they understood that they couldn't change sex and that the surgery was not a 'sex change'. This also seems to have changed as a result of lobbying, not because people can actually change sex now.

StyleItOutAgain · 05/10/2019 16:40

Oh sorry I name changed.

Your whole claim is that is fine normal and standard to treat mental health conditions with surgery. Citing bariatric surgery.

Others are saying that surgery is to treat the symptoms that result in things like diabetes. But the cause.

I think you need more than one example as the one you have given is poor. What other surgeries do you recommend to treat mental health issues?

StyleItOutAgain · 05/10/2019 16:42

Tequila this surgery was in usa where its v lucrative and much less regulated apparently.

In those circs I think deferring to them on everything is a bad idea.

Doctors / pharmacies have many times produced / recommended things that were awful.

Lobotomy, mentioned earlier, would be a good example.

QuentinWinters · 05/10/2019 16:54

So if you ban gender reassignment surgery and offer only therapy what happens when that fails?
What constitutes failure here?
With bariatric surgery, if other treatments have not caused weight loss, that patient will continue to be morbidly obese, suffer associated health problems and potentially die without that surgery.

With transgenderism, that patient will continue to be very unhappy with their body but won't be at risk of health conditions and death from not being treated (except suicide possibly, but the evidence isnt clear cut as discussed upthread).

So I don't fully understand what failure is in the context of transgender ism.

TequilaPilates · 05/10/2019 16:55

StyleItOutAgain

I'm sorry - I need to give more examples? Why? Who invented these rules?

Other posters on here have been very insistent that transgenderism should be compared to anorexia, because we don't treat anorexia with surgery. Maybe not but we treat other eating disorders with surgery.

And this surgery isn't only done in the USA.

I can't see much point in continuing with this discussion. You are only interested in hearing from people who agree with you so there is really no point.

TequilaPilates · 05/10/2019 17:00

So I don't fully understand what failure is in the context of transgender ism.

I suppose someone living an extremely unhappy life? I don't know. You would need to ask someone living that life.

Are there studies available that show transgenderism can be successfully treated with therapy?

CactusAndCacti · 05/10/2019 17:03

The surgery in the first article was done in South Africa.

How can he have pain in his left calf if his left leg was amputated above the knee? Unless it was phantom limb pain.

Yes it doesn't really explain that. Phantom limb pain is fairly common, I work with a fair few people who have had amputations and most will describe having them.

I do wonder if the risks involved are ever fully explained or if people just put their fingers in their ears.

QuentinWinters · 05/10/2019 17:29

Are there studies available that show transgenderism can be successfully treated with therapy?

I don't know. People who desist are not counted as "treated". They are identified as not trans in the first place.

There are plenty of people who transition without SRS. Maybe they are "successfully treated".

What does treatment success look like to you?

QuentinWinters · 05/10/2019 17:32

So for example GrrrlAlex. Transitioned with no surgery/hormones. Seems very happy. I assume has regular counselling in her job as a psychologist. That looks like successful transition to me.
www.grrlalex.co.uk/what-is-transgender/

Fieldofgreycorn · 05/10/2019 17:37

Transitioned to what though? A person wearing a skirt and lippy?