Transgender manager sues after botched op costs him his leg

[Yeahnahyeah]

I could weep.

city-press.news24.com/News/transgender-manager-sues-after-botched-op-costs-him-his-leg-20191001

4th Wave Now are also following botched surgeries by a different doctor, this one in the U.S.

4thwavenow.com/2019/08/26/catching-up-with-renowned-phalloplasty-surgeon-dr-curtis-crane/

It appears botched phalloplasties are the norm, not the exception. How could they not be? It is such a brutal proceedure.

Dysphoria of any sort is awful and impacts quality of life and needs to be dealt with in an appropriate manner.

Yes, I agree, but that means MENTAL HEALTH services, not chopping off body parts unnecessarily.

So why the fuck are we chopping them up?

Bodily autonomy. The medical profession agreeing that SRS is an appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria so patients ask for it and doctors do it.
I agree with the sentiment on this thread but some of the language is hard. We are talking about human beings here.

Until the medical profession decides dysphoria is a psychological not physical condition this is going to happen. And I can't see a big change in their approach given the current political agenda to affirm that identity is more important than biology.

Men get surgery in prison to transition.

I have a theory that these types of surgeries are so rationed/controlled in the UK that it is hard for plastic surgeons to build up their skills. So if they can find a way to wrangle a chance to practice on the prison population they do. I mean, it pains me greatly to say it, but appearances suggest that Karen White was the recipient of some fairly high class surgery. Not that I'd be putting those before and after shots in my portfolio if I was chasing the celebrity £££ for my private practice but I'd lay money they are used for teaching sessions.

Sorry, I was going to post some before and after images but it's so sickening I can't bring myself to do it. Go google if you have t seen the evidence before

So either a) Stonewall etc are wrong, these people are genuinely suicidal and therefore clearly it IS a mental illness, in which case why is it being treated by physical surgery rather than counselling?

or b) these people are cynically weaponising suicide and are not mentally ill, in which case there is no need for them to have surgery as it plays no part in treating a disorder or saving their life.

Why is it only one of these 2 options? Having suicidal thoughts as a result of a condition doesn't mean that the original condition is a mental illness surely? If you were diagnosed with cancer and became deeply depressed and suicidal it wouldn't mean that the cancer was a mental illness treatable by counseling would it? Maybe the distress and suicidal thoughts could be treated with counseling but the underlying cancer would remain.

People who are morbidly obese (ie have an eating disorder) are being treated with drastic surgery. Why aren't they being treated with counseling rather than having most of their stomachs removed with all of the attendant risks?

I agree with a pp who said that we are too quick to medicalise issues nowadays but I think that we need to look at all procedures, not just concentrate on this one issue.

Tequila what physical pathology is present in transgenderism? What body part or physical disease will kill a transgender person if untreated? Their breasts aren’t diseased. Their penis isn’t diseased.

A cancer patient will die of cancer if left untreated. A morbidly obese person is at significantly higher risk of dying of heart failure if their weight is not brought under control.

Of course anyone can feel suicidal for any underlying reason but nothing is actually going to kill transgender people other than suicide if their physical sex characteristics are left in situ. The stats which suggested they were killing themselves at higher rates than any other sector of the population have been thoroughly debunked (I believe even the author of the report no longer stands by it) and a long term Swedish study indicated that suicidal ideation increases by a statistically significant amount after surgical transition. So what seems to be actually happening is a medical profession being held to ransom by the threat of suicide (that is, thankfully, not borne out by reality) and being hamstrung in any attempt to treat the mental pathology driving people to hate their healthy physical body by fear of being called transphobic...because it’s not a mental illness, apparently and in “treating” it by surgical mutilation, potentially making their patients’ lives worse afterwards.

Jesus Christ Tequila, mate!

You need to take a walk down a paediatric oncology ward. Absolutely awful comparison.
Yes, people with gender dysphoria feel intense psychological pain, but there is absolutely no long term evidence that transition resolves that pain. Suicide ideation is common amongst all LGBT youth, but actual suicide of trans people seems to be more common amongst transitioners, especially post surgery. We need actual, scientific studies on outcomes for trans people, y’know, like the ones we have for cancer mums.

My stepdaughter (13) is currently experiencing ROGD (she told a teacher she hated her boobs and the attention she was getting from men and the teacher suggested she might ‘really be a boy’ and funnelled her towards mermaids (for fucks sake!) and my daughter (7) is an oncology patient who a year ago today was on a ventilator and heading towards total organ failure.
They are both struggling with a shitty hand right now but there is absolutely no comparison between the two situations.

My stepdaughter’s experience is more akin to teenagers that self harm through cutting or eating disorders. My daughter’s experience is ‘you must have this poisonous chemical that makes you puke and cry and makes you so fucking ill you have to use a wheelchair or YOU WILL DIE.

Yes, they both need professional mental health support to help them cope with their lack of agency in the wider world, but my stepdaughter’s condition can resolve with no other treatment (see the brave and amazing outspoken detransitioner and desisters at Pique Resilience Project, GNC Centric, Thomasina and Charlie et al) where my daughter’s condition has a 60% fatality rate one year after onset. Without treatment it’s 100% fatal, often within weeks.
We know that’s not true of gender dysphoria, or there wouldn’t be thousands of adult transitioners - they would never have made it to adulthood.

So, no, no comparison at all.

DuMonde I hope your daughter pulls through and your SD finds peace in her identity.

betty

The "first do no harm" rule does not apply to cosmetic surgery. It's my understanding that so-called sex-reassignment surgery is categorised as cosmetic surgery.

I'm not saying that transgenderism is the same as cancer.

I was referring to the post that was saying that if transgender people are suicidal then that means that it's a mental illness.

My point is that someone can become suicidal as a reaction to an underlying problem. That doesn't mean that the underlying problem is a mental illness. Someone could have a physical problem and their reaction to it triggers suicidal feelings.

I was simply using cancer as an example. It could be any condition.

Play silly games get silly prizes.

But tequila

What part of the body is sick/wrong ?

The bodies are healthy. So what are they having the reaction to ?

The comparison is not cancer, it's anorexia.

Person believes their body is "wrong" in some way and seeks to change it by any means possible. The means of that change causes measurable, demonstrable, harm - denying them the ability to change causes them distress. It is a terrible situation for the individual.

What we don't do is encourage a person with anorexia to exercise or give them liposuction, because that is not going to help them.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why enabling harmful behaviour is seen a good thing for the trans population.

Surgically removing healthy tissue is harmful. Hormone treatment that causes risk of cardiovascular disease and bone loss is harmful.

Being promised lies, like you can change sex, is harmful.

I'd like medics doing this work to explain their clinical reasoning.

My point is that someone can become suicidal as a reaction to an underlying problem.

What is the 'underlying problem' in gender dysphoria, tequila?

Nailed it, vivarium.

The only conditions Gender Dysphoria can be compared to are ones that improve with talking therapy and sometimes resolve spontaneously, without any professional treatment at all.

Ie, not bloody cancer.

What is the 'underlying problem' in gender dysphoria, tequila?

The underlying problem is gender dysphoria.

I was literally replying to the poster that I quoted who said if suicide is threatened it can only mean 1 of 2 things - either that gender dysphoria is a mental illness or that it's being used to emotionally blackmail people.

I was simply pointing out that that isn't necessarily true. A person can become suicidal for many reasons. 1 reason might be as a reaction to a medical condition. That doesn't make the medical condition necessarily a mental illness.

And why is someone comparing transgenderism to anorexia? Why not to eating disorders in general? We do treat some eating disorders with surgery eg people who are morbidly obese. They can have bariatric surgery. What is the difference there?

But how else can it be categorised.

The body is healthy
The brain.is healthy

Nothing shows up in scans etc

So if it's not a physical ailment in that there is nothing medically wrong with the body or the brain etc then what else can it be other than a mental.health issue?

The underlying problem is gender dysphoria.

Is this a physical or mental condition?

Is this a physical or mental condition?

I have no idea what it is.

What is an eating disorder?

What is an eating disorder?

Anorexia is an eating disorder and serious mental health condition.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/anorexia/

11.5 hours surgery, 4 surgeons!!! Bloody hell that's massive. Sort of thing you'd get for separating cojoined twins pr something equally tricky and complex...

In usa this will be easy more than 70k , is have thought hundreds of thousands!?

The motivations of the medical profession esp in usa are obvious surely. A lot of cash in it for pharmaceutical cos as well.

Is 70K just for the actual surgery. Without aftercare and medication etc?

Anorexia is an eating disorder and serious mental health condition.

It is. It's not the only eating disorder though.

Why are morbidly obese people, who clearly have an eating disorder and a mental health condition, treated with bariatric surgery if your argument is that mental health conditions aren't treated with surgery?

No way does 4surgeons 11.5 hour procedure come in at 70k in usa.

No way at all.