Not having sex with someone because they don't have the right genitals is transphobic. No prizes for guessing who's claiming this

[Doyoumind]

RM is busy trying to justify their support for a particularly unpleasant tweet yesterday. For those of you who are blocked, I'll add some grabs.

Women having a sexual orientation that excludes penises = transphobic. Yeah, knew that one....

Women withdrawing consent during preparations for sex = transphobic. Yeah that one's been out there too for centuries, it's just not been called transphobia until lately, well known belief held by a high majority of rapists incidentally. Once you've gone to the bedroom girls you gotta go through with it want to or not or you're a big fat meanie and Other Words Too.

Women wanting to run a mile from someone who's just lied to them so clearly neither respects them nor is remotely trustworthy = transphobic. Yeah, Stephen Whittle put that one in the public domain a while back.

Frankly the word 'transphobic' gets less meaningful or sensible by the day. Rache, love, women are humans, equal people, with equally valid feelings and needs and preferences and they necessitate equal respect from a sexual partner. Which is why we spend a hell of a lot of time on the relationships board teaching women about the right to respect, to equality, to say no, to not be abused and controlled, and to get the fuck away from partners who treat them as if they exist only to provide their body to be used by some rapey twat with emotional competence issues.

Trying to make women believe that this freedom and empowerment is transphobic..... well it says a hell of a lot more about you than women saying no.

Linking this thread on my Cotton Ceiling Evidence thread, though I think McKinnon is already on there for earlier tweets.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294339-cotton-ceiling-evidence-thread

So, if I get to the bedroom with someone and change my mind it’s not ok in trans world! A person can always change their mind, at any point for any reason!
No one has to have sex with anyone of any gender, with any genital situation to avoid offense! What Rapey bullshit!

this makes me so angry. So TW with penises are entitled to have sex with whatever women they please, because to refuse consent to them is transphobic and therefore illegal?

I'd rather be transphobic than raped, thank you very much.

I think RM’s message is so important, the world should hear it.

Especially straight men, who are likely the most transphobic of all.

Perhaps we should consider an advertising campaign.

Here in the US, I think an ad explaining to straight men how and why they’re practicing discrimination by refusing to suck girldick would have maximum impact if run during the Super Bowl. It would really make men think about RM’s important message.

Failing that, stickers in men’s rooms. Lots of them.

I

By this logic declining sex with anyone because their body does not appeal to you is phobic.

The fundamental thing here is deception, as far as I can see. If you present yourself/describe yourself as a sex other than that which you are, you are setting out to deliberately deceive a potential partner. That is not on. You can't trick people into sex and then hope they'll 'get over it'. The attempt at deception is far more of a problem than the genital arrangement, as far as I'm concerned.

This is the next wave of incels.

Worth noting the extreme narcissm within this view. The other person is a thing.

A lesbian arrives in the bedroom with someone in the belief that they are also a lesbian (and has somehow missed this up to this point. Yes, I know, buzz kill no 1: women can usually tell whether or not the person they're attracted to is female or not.)

On undressing, the lesbian realises that their sexual partner is in fact biologically male. The idealised outcome at this time I suppose is that the woman either 'doesn't notice' or celebrates the male's 'alternative female biology' (the traditional heterosexual male's fantasy here is a yell of 'take me big boy')

The lesbian stopping proceedings at this point on the assertion that they have basic equal human rights, like consent and sexual orientation based on biology, and that nothing kills the buzz for most women more than a person more than discovering this kind of essential lack of honesty and respect for you, is a narcissistic injury.

The trans person's feelings and needs are put forward here as the responsibility of the lesbian to protect and prioritise. Their own feelings and needs (and orientation) should be cast aside without hesitation or question. The trans person's reciprocal responsibilities towards the other person...………………………?

Anybody?

…… anybody?

Being used treated like this is about as unsexy as it gets.

And resting on the premise anyway of:

• I am a person with the unlimited right to rise above debatably limited science, biology, language and conceptualisation, to define myself in any way I choose , and to expect unconditional acceptance for my choices in my identity and my personal reality. Any issues this causes you are reflective of your limitations and bigotry.

But no, you may not define yourself in any way you choose, and here are the limitations I expect you to obey at all times or be punished.

Gawd some of these people would have loved the 8th century. Just think of all the ducking stools.

Yes exactly, Michelle.

If I take someone to my bedroom "for relations" I can change my mind whenever I like and for whatever reason I like. Rapey twit

Surely this is the point?

I think I would actually agree with rm that this genuinely is transphobia

Why? People's bodies aren't subject to the Equality Act.

So consent goes out of the window 🤨 and we have to let these people have sex with us?

A phobia isn't a legal term as far as I'm aware.

I asked my gay friend what he thought about this and he said he isn't "doing vag" regardless if it's attached to a man or a woman. Neither would I.

Oh FFS. The old "we get killed over this" tosh.

How many transwomen are actually killed each year because someone didn't like what was between their legs as they were about to get it on? I'm guessing the proportion of that number who were victims of lesbians (and they can F off with cis lesbian) is probably none.

Why are all these "women " not protesting the number of actual adult human females murdered by their partners in the UK EVERY WEEK?!!

On reflection, this might actually be good. Hear me out....

'Beryl' picks up 'Jean' in a lesbian bar. They go back to Beryl's for a bit of action, where it turns out that Jean has an 8" surprise waiting. Beryl politely declines. Jean goes on a "transphobia!" bender.

All Beryl has to do is say "I'm a lesbian - I only have sex with women. Jean pretended to be a lesbian, but they are male with a penis and testicles. When I declined to have sex with them, Jean got angry with me; and now they are spreading lies about me "

Everybody in the real world knows what those words mean and what the rapey, male-entitlement subtext of Jean's outrage is.

RM is being an absolute fucking hypocrite, given RM retrospectively calls RM's trans widow a rapist for sex that took place during the marriage.

A phobia isn't a legal term as far as I'm aware.

It was a throwaway comment. Why do you think refusing to sleep with someone who has deceived you about their sex is "transphobia"?

So, if a cis gendered female takes a cis gendered male to the bedroom - sees him naked decides she no longer wants the coitus (changes her mind), then she should still have sex with him?

Is he not aware that sexual orientation is actually a protected characteristic?? What an absolute twat..

I saw these tweets and they are creepy and vile, as well as disgustingly misogynistic and frankly homophobic. It's almost as RM is now the poster child for lesbian conversion therapy. It's cringey and just "rapey".

Sadly, even though I'm trans, I can't answer the question as to why transwomen don't just date in their own pool. (I'll probably be accused of being transphobic now because I don't want 'girl dick'). Tbh I don't think I could handle the 'crazy' and delusions even before genital/body preference even came up.

From my own perspective I'm only attracted to men (of the adult human male variety), and when I showed my DP these tweets this morning, his response would probably earn me a ban if I repeated them .

However, in a non sweary moment, he simply stated the bloody obvious..

Women should be able to define themselves in any way they choose and by that definition be able to express their sexuality in any way they choose. It's not rocket science. Just basic autonomy.

Now why can't the TRAs get this? Genital preference is not transphobic ffs.

RM gets away with this by framing it as some kind of ethical debate because, as a philosopher, RM is so much better qualified to be right on all subjects. Very arrogant in a way which strangely kind of doesn't make me think 'woman'.

Poor Joss Prior has been trying hard on Twitter to show that the cotton ceiling isn't a thing. Poor Joss, undermined by Joss's own side.

Is he not aware that sexual orientation is actually a protected characteristic?? What an absolute twat..

Well a lot of people conveniently forget that sex not gender is a protected characteristic so sure, why not extend that...