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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Hey FWR - "We need both sides to live with some compromise "

423 replies

pombear · 13/09/2019 22:40

Warning: This thread will spontaneously combust after 10 posts!

As part of this 'complex subject' a poster started a thread to highlight that a trans activist appeared to have posted a twitter gif that implied they were 'dancing on the grave' of a prominent feminist who sadly died today.

The thread was deleted with this message:

Message from MNHQ: We're sorry to hear some users are not happy with our modding of trans discussions, and our updated Talk Guidelines.
This is a complex subject which is very hard to moderate, and since the two fundamental positions cannot easily be squared, it's likely that both sides will have to live with some compromise and even contradiction if they wish to move forward.
We realise that this will likely be frustrating to many, but we are convinced that our goal must be to support civil and constructive debate.

Civil and constructive debate?

Women point out destructive and uncivil debate from a trans rights activist,

Women also point out the biological sex of this activist.

Women are deleted and schooled in how they must refer to this destructive and uncivil 'debater.

both sides will have to live with some compromise and even contradiction if they wish to move forward

Women - shut up, compromise, live with the 'contradiction' (in this case, does it mean you must only talk about the person who is shitting all over women's spaces and rights if we use the right pronoun?)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
HeadintheiClouds · 13/09/2019 23:40

Of course it isn’t. George Orwell thought he was writing fiction all those years ago...

pachyderm · 13/09/2019 23:40

Rachel McKinnon is a disgusting misogynistic man.

TinselAngel · 13/09/2019 23:41

8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

MagneticSingularity · 13/09/2019 23:43

So we compromise by maintaining the polite fiction that trans individuals are not the sex they actually are even when they are being absolute cunts all over social media beyond these? And they compromise by...?? Have I missed it MNHQ? Where exactly is the quid pro quo here? I don’t think compromise means what you think it means.

MagneticSingularity · 13/09/2019 23:44

*These boards

SmellbowSpaceBowl · 13/09/2019 23:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 13/09/2019 23:46

The Bewilderness

12th rule of misogyny : Women's ability to recognise male behaviour patters is misandry.

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 13/09/2019 23:47

Patterns not patters, sorry, posting in anger and disbelief.

Redshoeblueshoe · 13/09/2019 23:48

The thread was deleted because it had a billion deletions

No one was deleted for saying RM is a twat/wanker/bastard/vile

But for misgendering Shock Shock Shock

FFS to Amazon and get some grips [totally fucking disappointed]

Ereshkigal · 13/09/2019 23:49

Of course it isn’t. George Orwell thought he was writing fiction all those years ago...

And then we had the ironic idiocy this week of Alice Roberts claiming Jane Clare Jones was being "Orwellian" by explaining to her that it is actually the genderists who are the biological essentialists.

ErrolTheDragon · 13/09/2019 23:50

Yup. What's the compromise being made here?

If it's that we have to mis-sex and they can't use cis or TERF... not sure anyone here made that deal, did we? I mean, I don't particularly care if someone uses a silly term (especially cis, I like waffling about chemistry).

BeMoreMagdalen · 13/09/2019 23:50

Yes, girls, that person is an evil shitstain. You can say all those words, but if you say 'he', you've failed to 'go high' and we shall have to chide.

terryleather · 13/09/2019 23:53

Be More Magdalen

Hey FWR - "We need both sides to live with some compromise "
NotBadConsidering · 13/09/2019 23:54

Posting in support.

TwigletsQueen · 13/09/2019 23:55

@MNHQ

Mumsnet. The place that bows down to MEN.

FFS.

1984 indeed.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 13/09/2019 23:57

Vomit worthy. You just told women who were stunned at the wickedness of a man gloating over the death of a young woman that they were being uncivil and should compromise.

This with bells on. I will also eat my hat if the man in question has ever compromised with any woman.

WombOfOnesOwn · 14/09/2019 00:01

From now on I will be referring to MTFs as "she/her" and "ma'am."

Like this:

"I was on Twitter today and a couple of she/hers were tweeting photos about dancing on Magdalen Berns's grave."

"Did you see that ridiculous ma'am up there on the podium? She/her penis was clearly visible through she/her shorts."

"I don't think a ma'am can ever become a woman."

70sWitch · 14/09/2019 00:02

This

Hey FWR - "We need both sides to live with some compromise "
SmellbowSpaceBowl · 14/09/2019 00:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TwigletsQueen · 14/09/2019 00:03

@ineedacupofteadesperately

Poor girl(s) person(s) boy(s) woman(women) man(males) whoever that/they/he/she was/were...

See? How complicated does the trans'ness make it!!!!!!!!!

ThePurported · 14/09/2019 00:03

Let's be clear, we are talking about a man who tells lesbians that they can learn to cope with dick, and he is now celebrating the death of a lesbian who said no.
But if we want to discuss this awful person, we have to use his initials or refer to him as 'she' so as not to reveal his sex because...
Why exactly?

prodkittens · 14/09/2019 00:03

I had abandoned my former AngryAttackKittens account and intended not to return after the last massive data breach, but for this I will, because this? This is absolutely disgusting. For a site created by and for women to suggest that someone celebrating the death of a young woman from cancer is a "nuanced" or "complicated" issue is both a complete abandonment of even the vaguest sense of commitment to the female user base that generates the advertising that pays your bills and demonstration of an abandonment of ethics so complete that I'm not sure how any of the people responsible sleep at night.

I'm sure this will probably lead to an immediate ban, but hey, at least I know that I haven't turned into a person so lacking in basic human decency that I think in a "debate" between someone celebrating a young woman's death and the people saying "stop doing that, that's disgusting" the appropriate response is to scold the people who're disgusted with the individual celebrating the young person's death and lecture them about how they should be kinder and more polite to the aformentioned awful human being.

(Don't think we don't know that part of the reason you're doing this is that the aformentioned individual might sue you - if said individual had no power we'd be allowed to criticize them as much as we liked.)

terryleather · 14/09/2019 00:07

Angry returns with a knock out blow...how we have missed you!

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 14/09/2019 00:11

Perhaps there's still someone sensible on staff and they will come in with "oops, new mod, misjudged that a bit", which wouldn't be a good excuse but would at least indicate that they're listening to how furious their users are. I'm not holding my breath though.

(Hi Terry! Hope all's as well as it can be given how absurd the current situation is.)

2BthatUnnoticed · 14/09/2019 00:13

Perhaps just rebrand as Mansnet and be done with it?