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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
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Lamahaha · 22/08/2019 20:00

And they don't envy women's social role either. The facilitator, dinner cooker, party arranger. They envy the girl-ad, the gorgeously put together, sassy blonde, manufactured woman from ... ads and romcoms.

As well as the mother, the carer of the sick and old, the invisible bedrock of society, the ones who hold it all together while they, in glorious rainbow colours, explore all the "pleasures": sexual fun and games, fetishes, drag shows etc not to mention all the really cool Youtube and Twitter dramas, and it's all about me me me and how cool and important and yet oppressed and offended I am.

We are the old frumpy bores, the prudes. They thought they could walk all over us. They thought they could gag us.

But just watch us roar.

MN is a really good place to hear that roaring: roars of rage, of outrage. I had no idea, until I heard you and you peaked me. Thank you all: Barracker, Red, Datun, Lang, R0, Charley, Michelle, Fekko, Goosefoot, OldCrone, Detroit and so many many others.

I think, this thread is a roar that many more will hear.

TinselAngel · 22/08/2019 20:03

I'm seriously thinking of getting a T-shirt that says "Prude" on it.

OldCrone · 22/08/2019 20:09

The deletions have been very specific.

They've been when I've questioned specific significant safeguarding issues, or another poster's understanding of safeguarding.

I've had a number of posts deleted which have pointed out that paedophiles appear to be using the trans rights movement in order to gain access to children. Just like they did in the 70s with PIE and gay rights.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 22/08/2019 20:11

I was vaguely aware of that lot as a small child in the 70s. It’s amazing how many people were sucked into with ‘right on’ trendy sentiments.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 22/08/2019 20:30

@Lamahaha I just saw my shout out... I thank you, I thank you, 🙇‍♀️ .

I’m on my best behaviour though since I got my botty smacked by MNHQ...

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 22/08/2019 20:31

Blanchard gets the men - no doubt. What he doesn't get is the women.

I doubt even Blanchard himself would dispute this, dear @Datun Smile

Michelleoftheresistance · 22/08/2019 20:38

We are the old frumpy bores, the prudes.

Another core lobby belief: anyone (born with) a vagina is my mum.

Mum: old fashioned, out of date, stupid, unconditional approval and servicing at all times, always the grown up in the situation and sucks up all behaviour/comforts all feelings and tantrums while not letting own behaviours, needs, feelings enter the situation.

Hence the shock from the lobby that women on MN weren't just gossiping cosily about prams but actually had minds and political beliefs and a sense of self, and the utter rage and drama that the Mums here won't mummy them. We've had TRA lobbyists post here saying 'mums are supposed to be nurturing!'

Curry (I miss Curry) used to say dryly on threads when a TRA poster had been tipped into the 'mummy doesn't love us' feelings by a thread.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 22/08/2019 20:42

And they don't envy women's social role either. The facilitator, dinner cooker, party arranger. They envy the girl-ad, the gorgeously put together, sassy blonde, manufactured woman from ... ads and romcoms.

Their perception of women is rooted in their sexual fantasy. That is exactly how we know their behaviour is only ever about their fetish.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 22/08/2019 20:45

We've had TRA lobbyists post here saying 'mums are supposed to be nurturing!'

Ha ha! Just made me think of all the autogynephiles who started out as boys wearing their mum's underwear in secret and "pleasuring" themselves. Is that what they mean by "nurturing"? Wink

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 22/08/2019 21:03

I just think of the 3 male adult ‘baby girls’ photographed at London pride this year. Did not bring out my maternal side.

Lamahaha · 22/08/2019 21:08

Or the pups!! The pups!!!! Grin

TinselAngel · 22/08/2019 21:17

Their perception of women is rooted in their sexual fantasy. That is exactly how we know their behaviour is only ever about their fetish.

Had you heard that Bewilderness has confirmed a new, 15th rule of misogyny?

"Men are better at performing femininity than women are because they invented it and it gives them a boner"

zebrasdontwearbras · 22/08/2019 21:20

Kind of like the Madonna/whore complex - they want us to be the Madonnas, nurturing and kind, while they act out the whore.

Instead of sexually desiring the whore, they want to be the whore now. That's some fucked up evolution isn't it?

(FTR, I hate using the word whore - but it's the name of the theory.)

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 22/08/2019 22:07

"Men are better at performing femininity than women are because they invented it and it gives them a boner"

Ha ha! These blokes should come and live in my working class neighbourhood. The women here will show them what being a woman means! And it ain't remotely anything to do with their pathetic sexual fantasies.

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:22

i find the rage about being deleted for saying something that is not allowed on here amazing. the clue is in the fact it's been deleted, if you choose to target posters in an attempt to bully them from posting then mumsnet will remove them. If you don't do that then they will not remove them. if you want to personalise this like you seem to do then that will be the responce that you get. I have never done that or targeted anyone and, I'm the only opposing person on this thread so when a number of people decide to gang up on one it can often appear like bullying. i post on here becuse unchallenged you go to posts similar to spinster. I feel that people posting on there as made them think they can just do that on here too.

if you actually want to debate the issues then that is fine I will do that. if you just want to spend your time criticising me for protecting myself then i can just leave ya too it. the thread will max out soon I'm sure. either way I'm sure we will all just move on to the next one.

AyeRobot · 22/08/2019 22:25

Seriously? That's your take away from the thread? Sheesh.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 22:25

if you actually want to debate the issues then that is fine I will do that

what did you think all the posts above were doing bespin?

just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean it's not debate

Creepster · 22/08/2019 22:26

The self righteous is strong with this one.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 22:28

for example bespin, what's your view on the social standing of effeminate men vs women?

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:29

just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean it's not debate

Well where was the opposing view to make it a debate I didn't see one of you offer another point of view.

OldCrone · 22/08/2019 22:30

I think most of us have offered a different point of view to you bespin.

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:30

social standing of effeminate men vs women?

effeminate men are men so they have the social standing of men. They are not trans woman, were you infact asking about them cos that's a different question.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 22:31

hang on. we have to pretend to disagree with things we agree with now?

could this get any weirder?

if you disagree bespin, speak up.

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:31

OldCrone

yes you have that's why I'm here offering an alternative point of view in the debate that you want.

AyeRobot · 22/08/2019 22:32

Women's boundaries are not up for debate. Whatever made you think they were?