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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

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BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 22:33

OK bespin

you said I related to the girls around me in a number of ways far more than the boys I had to try to relate to or get a good kicking called names

why were you at risk of a kicking? PP's had made an assumption that it was because you were an effeminate male, but it sounds like you see a different cause?

TinselAngel · 22/08/2019 22:35

We've got to take it in turns to play devil's advocate? It's not the BBC we're not obliged to have balance.

unchallenged you go to posts similar to spinster. I feel that people posting on there as made them think they can just do that on here too.

Round up the pit ponies! They've had their annual week above ground! Get them back down below again!

PurpleCrowbar · 22/08/2019 22:36

But the thread, & the wider discussion, doesn't have to be channelled through the lens of what you see, Bespin.

littlbrowndog · 22/08/2019 22:36

What if I don’t believe that men then can change sex to become women.

Can anyone coerce me to believe or write it or think it

And if I don’t believe it what will happen to me
Do I have wrong think

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 22:37

wouldn't want the women thinking they can speak unpoliced would we tinsel?

thanks heavens bespin is here to make sure we all understand our obligations eh?

OldCrone · 22/08/2019 22:38

You said this, much earlier in the thread, bespin.

I'm transgendered, at a certain point I worked out what was wrong and corrected it. at the time I related to the girls around me in a number of ways far more than the boys I had to try to relate to or get a good kicking called names.

I didn't understand why you thought relating to the girls was how you 'worked out what was wrong'. I asked you whether you think that being transgender is somehow related to which sex your friends are? Why could you not just be a boy who liked to be friends with girls?

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:39

why were you at risk of a kicking? PP's had made an assumption that it was because you were an effeminate male, but it sounds like you see a different cause?

people make a lot of assumptions on here about us without understanding. no I was not an effeminate male. I learned early on just to be what people wanted me to be and to try and live upto there expectations while also wanting to be something I thought I would never be able to be. my first proper friend was a girl and we played together upto the point that we were no longer allowed to both by society and by families who expected us to conform to what people expected.

StrangeLookingParasite · 22/08/2019 22:40

if you choose to target posters in an attempt to bully them

You. Are. Not. Being. Bullied.

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:41

wouldn't want the women thinking they can speak unpoliced would we.
no one on mumsnet world want someone to be able to just say what they thought without being policed. just look what happens when anyone who's not trans tries to disagree with you all. lol

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 22:42

so why were you at risk from 'a good kicking [or getting] called names' bespin?

what was motivating the boys who threatened you? was their threatening behaviour a motivating factor in your transition?

TinselAngel · 22/08/2019 22:42

wouldn't want the women thinking they can speak unpoliced would we tinsel?

Thanks for reminding me of this:

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:43

What if I don’t believe that men then can change sex to become women.

then you hold that belief you are entitled to do that and no one can take that from you.

zebrasdontwearbras · 22/08/2019 22:44

then you hold that belief you are entitled to do that and no one can take that from you.

Actually, transactivists are having a damn good try.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 22:44

just look what happens when anyone who's not trans tries to disagree with you all

yes, people read your comments and respond to them, mostly in the spirit in which they were offered. lol

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:46

so why were you at risk from 'a good kicking [or getting] called names' bespin?

what was motivating the boys who threatened you? was their threatening behaviour a motivating factor in your transition?

again you make assumptions it's other boys, but no it was not the motivation to transition, I was one of the factors why I didn't transition at 18, though not the main one that was the death of my father at 15 and the expectation that I would love up to him by my family.

littlbrowndog · 22/08/2019 22:47

Do you believe bespin that men can change their sex and become women ?

And if you do how can they do this ?

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:48

Do you believe bespin that men can change their sex and become women ?

no one can change sex. do woman only exsist In relation to there sex?

OldCrone · 22/08/2019 22:48

I learned early on just to be what people wanted me to be and to try and live upto there expectations

Sounds like the opposite of my life. I learned early on what people wanted me to be and tried hard to break free of those restrictions.

my first proper friend was a girl and we played together upto the point that we were no longer allowed to both by society and by families who expected us to conform to what people expected.

I'm sorry that you grew up surrounded by so much narrow mindedness and felt that you needed to change yourself to fit expectations. But don't you think that society becoming more accommodating of people who step outside stereotypical behaviour is a much more progressive solution than people modifying themselves to 'fit' what society expects?

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 22:50

in which case I don't understand why you talked about having to try to relate to boys to avoid getting a kicking and being called names in the context of the conversation if it had no bearing on your decision to transition bespin ?

OldCrone · 22/08/2019 22:51

do woman only exsist In relation to there sex?

The definition of 'woman' is based on sex: adult human female.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 22/08/2019 22:52

I've barely contributed to this thread. I've been ill. But I've sat here in awe of the intellectual pyrotechnics and sheer brilliance of the thinking of so many FWR regulars and a few brave delurkers.

It's been an amazing thread. Deserves to be a classic. I'm so proud to be among such deep and perceptive thinkers. Thank you all. And much love to Detroit. Hoping you're gaining support from what is being said to you here. I feel an upsell of love and concern for you

It's so true about the monitors and the deletions they get. Every one demonstrates the poverty and misogyny of their ideas. Bunch of nasty losers.

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:52

But don't you think that society becoming more accommodating of people who step outside stereotypical behaviour is a much more progressive solution than people modifying themselves to 'fit' what society expects?

yes genuinely I do, I think we will possibly not exsist in 1000 years time that people will not need to do this that gender will not have such an impact on poeple that don't feel it matches there sex.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 22:52

do women exist only in relation to their sex?

typically you express yourself far from clearly

but if you mean 'is whether or not you are a woman determined solely by your sex?'

then the answer is yes, of course

read the dictionary

littlbrowndog · 22/08/2019 22:53

I dunno bespin if it was great idea for you to come back to this thread.

I have had 🍷. Yeah kids stay in bed 🙏🙏

And I kinda get the feeling you might hav3 been o; the 🍷as well
Nightie

sackrifice · 22/08/2019 22:54

just look what happens when anyone who's not trans tries to disagree with you all. lol

They get asked questions they cannot answer then pop off to ice a cake? lol.

Swipe left for the next trending thread