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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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TinselAngel · 18/08/2019 22:55

When she dies, the most dominant male changes sex and takes her place.

Quoted without comment.

S1naidSucks · 18/08/2019 22:59

Bespin, we’ll never ever agree on the trans issues, but you’ve gone too far with this comment and I’ll be reporting you.

cold milk with plenty of sugar.

FFS! Just when I thought you were genuine, but misguided and now you’ve proven that you’re just a troll. Sugar and cold milk, indeed! 🤢

RadicalFern · 18/08/2019 23:01

I know I'm couple of hours late, but felt the need to say that Blue is my favourite Joni Mitchell album too. Closely followed by Clouds.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/08/2019 23:07

No animal, including humans, can ever change their natural sex.

No mammal, including humans, can ever change their natural sex.
As surely bespin knows?

Cuttlefish can make themselves look half male, half female in the interests of sneaky sex. Irrelevant, but so are clownfish.

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 23:07

Oh, clouds is lovely.

My list would go

Blue

For the roses

Court and spark

As my top three. I'm quite fond of miles of Aisles. Currently have chalk Mark in the rain playing.

I finally worked out how to pick case of you out on my guitar without retuning it.

XenoBio · 18/08/2019 23:08

Bespin is 100% Right about weetabix. Even if we disagree on much else.

Also. Whoever made the point about Blue Savannah Song. Yes x1000. Love that song, but it falls into that category of beautiful songs with a shite/ trite video. Ocean Colour Scene im looking at you.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 23:09

It all reduces down to gametes when it comes to sexual reproduction of any species, people.

If your body, be it plant or animal, is created by the natural process that is evolution to supply the small gamete, the label that is assigned is "Male".

If your body, be it plant or animal, is created by the natural process that is evolution to supply the large gamete, the label that is assigned is "Female".

That is it. That is all there is.

Barracker · 18/08/2019 23:12

There was once a man called Bruce. It's a matter of public knowledge.
He isn't dead.
I do not want to share female only space with him.
There was once a news reporter called Jonathan.
This is a matter of public knowledge.
He isn't dead.
I do not want to share female only space with him.
There was once a man called Frank.
He isn't dead.
This is matter of public knowledge.
I do not wish to share female only space with him.

One of these tried to strangle his wife. One screamed abusively in the face of an older woman. One has enormous strength and physique.
At least one of these men no longer has a penis. It doesn't make his presence in spaces where my daughter and I are vulnerable, any more acceptable than the others who retain theirs.

I won't connect these men who once existed, and who still are alive, with their new personas. These men are not dead, therefore they still exist. It should not break any talk guidelines to reference public figures and the names they once held, or their sex as it was publicly known at that time. These facts are not sealed or secret in any way.

There is no operation that Bruce, Jonathan or Frank could have that would make it acceptable for their presence to be forced upon me, or upon any unwilling women and children in spaces exclusively for females.
I simply don't consent to being treated as a common sex category with Bruce, Jonathan or Frank because that is not what I am.

Penis or no penis. That is not what I am. I'm not a blank page for men to write their preferred definition of woman onto. I'm not 'what you roughly get by removing a penis from a man, more or less'

I am the opposite sex to all men, no matter their operative status. I already exist with my own characteristics, which are beyond all male mimicry.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 18/08/2019 23:18

I could really want to be a cat. You could draft fur into my face and a rail onto my spine. I could purrrrrrr and lick my backside, and chase mice. Eat bugs. Hiss at dogs. Eat my own vomit and cough up fur balls.

I wouldn’t be a cat. I would be mentally ill (or a circus performer).

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 23:20

Humans aren't fish.

I prefer cabbages to men.

S1naidSucks · 18/08/2019 23:21

Cuttlefish can make themselves look half male, half female in the interests of sneaky sex.

Now who does that remind me off?

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 23:22

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD

You should know that fish and cats are not a good mix! Cats eat fish! Wink

TinselAngel · 18/08/2019 23:22

Also. Whoever made the point about Blue Savannah Song.

'Twas me. I shall now quit while I'm being justifiably lauded as right, and go to bed. Bear

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 23:27

I am not and have never been any kind of fish, Mr McCarthy.

I have only ever been a female human, Mr McCarthy.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 23:31

Sleep well, @TinselAngel

I shall follow my way to my sleep in a few minutes.

testing987654321 · 19/08/2019 00:47

I love the way you express yourself Barracker. I completely agree with you. I will not pretend a man is a woman.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 19/08/2019 01:03

Clownfish do not change sex, they are sequential hermaphrodites. Under stress, as in when leader fish is eaten by a shark, the hitherto non-functioning (but dusting) reproductive system comes online and 2IC fish becomes Big Mama. The same is true for eels and whatever.

This is for the peanut gallery, because I’m sure Bespin knows this.

But of course, mammalian reproduction to highly specialised sexual dimorphism, and humans and fish are became very distant relatives. We’ve not been kissing cousins for some 300 million years.

Themyscira · 19/08/2019 01:10

BUT MUH CLOWNFISH

SophoclesTheFox · 19/08/2019 07:14

When she dies, the most dominant male changes sex and takes her place

On a thread started by a transwoman bemoaning that they are being erased, this is just glorious. Such an insight.

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 07:33

I think we are missing a potential new mantra.

"Transwomen are clownfish."

Come on everyone repeat after me.

Or we can agree it's possibly the single most ridiculous argument we've had so far, and that's a pretty special accolade in a debate about denying reality and forcing others to recite falsehoods.

Cascade220 · 19/08/2019 07:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

testing987654321 · 19/08/2019 07:53

It's a fascinating "gotcha" isn't it? As though the biology of other animals means that we should believe humans can be born in the wrong body.

MrsKittyFane1 · 19/08/2019 07:59

Life is too short OP.

Gingerkittykat · 19/08/2019 08:15

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Cats don't eat their own vomit, they leave it in soggy little puddles to step in when you get out of bed in the dark.

nettie434 · 19/08/2019 08:29

Flowers detroitin68

Another Joni fan - Court and Spark, Hejira and Hissing of Summer Lawns interchangeably.

For you, hope the wind carries you to somewhere better.

Original poster does have a touch of Shades of Scarlett Conquering though Wink

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