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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

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Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 21:39

I've been having conversations which go something like

Are you a women's only shelter

Yes.

Is there anyone in the shelter with a penis

We have transexual women. They are women.

As far as the shelter is concerned twaw.

And I'm bigoted for not wanting to sleep in an unlocked space with penis owners.

I've said the word penis so much it sounds wrong.

Ereshkigal · 18/08/2019 21:42

Detroit Thanks

Ereshkigal · 18/08/2019 21:44

I don't know what else to say. It's such utter, utter misogynistic bullshit and I can't forgive anyone who had colluded.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 21:48

Here in the UK hardly any man has his penis removed [about 0.5%] and only about 3000 men have an amended Birth Certificate [which is meaningless anyway] .. so it is safer for women to assume that all men, regardless of how they choose to present themselves, are men and therefore pose a potential risk to women and children in their private spaces.

Beyond that, we all know that no-one can change their natural sex, so the whole Trans whatever anyone wants to call it is a fiction. UK law actually acknowledges that the issue of a GRC that facilitates the amendment of a Birth Certificate is a Legal Fiction.

All of this is way beyond laughable.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 21:50

Here in the UK hardly any man has his penis removed [about 0.5%]

Should have qualified that as being 0.5% of estimated number of transvestites in UK.

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 22:05

I'm not sharing the space with a penis owning agp who has sexually fetishised womens spaces as a want prop.

I was prepared to share a space, unwillingly and uneasily with post bottom surgery trans xy people

But it's not that. It's penis owners.

I'm not willing to talk to an organization who believes twaw, and that my trauma is less important than coddling the fantasies of MEN.

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 22:05

Want prop! Wank prop.

SmellbowSpaceBowl · 18/08/2019 22:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bespin · 18/08/2019 22:18

did the original poster ever come back to this thread at all, it's 17 pages in.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/08/2019 22:19

I feel like I've gone insane trying to define man and woman to a bunch of woke children
...
We have transexual women. They are women.

I bet they couldn't give you a rational definition of 'woman'.
So sorry you've been treated with such contempt. Stay safe.Thanks

SmellbowSpaceBowl · 18/08/2019 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

S1naidSucks · 18/08/2019 22:23

did the original poster ever come back to this thread at all, it's 17 pages in.

No, Bespin, they did the usual male socialisation screaming at women for not validating them or centring them, made it clear they were happy to use their physical Male strength to bully their way into female spaces, then flounced off. The same old TRA tactic of trying to bully women and make us back down.

Ereshkigal · 18/08/2019 22:23

did the original poster ever come back to this thread at all, it's 17 pages in.

No one expected them to. We had a valuable discussion without them.

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 22:27

Their definition of woman was anyone who identified as a woman was a woman, penis or not.

TinselAngel · 18/08/2019 22:30

We had a valuable discussion without them.

We also engaged in much irrelevant jollity, which is always a tonic.

It's been a pleasant weekend here.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 22:35

Men always were, always are, and always will be men and subject to male social conditioning .. regardless of any surgical or medical or costume alterations they choose to pursue.

A man who has chosen to have his testicles and / or penis surgically removed and having been subject to male social conditioning, is still a man.

A man who ingests exogenous oestrogen and attempts to suppress his testosterone to redistribute his fat deposits is still a man and will always be a man. [Note this: (although I recommend you ignore the reference to "transgender women" because it actually means men) www.medscape.com/viewarticle/893280?src=soc_fb_180302_mscpedt_news_mdscp_transgender&faf=1]

No animal, including humans, can ever change their natural sex.

S1naidSucks · 18/08/2019 22:45

Plus we had a serious discussion on the importance of serving weetabix correctly.
with banana and warm milk

Bespin · 18/08/2019 22:47

No animal, including humans, can ever change their natural sex.

I know you know this but.

Clownfish, wrasses, moray eels, gobies and other fish species are known to change sex, including reproductive functions. A school of clownfish is always built into a hierarchy with a female fish at the top. When she dies, the most dominant male changes sex and takes her place.

Bespin · 18/08/2019 22:49

weetabix

cold milk with plenty of sugar.

I bet the amaericans love that bit. they don't get weekabix at the best of times lol

Ereshkigal · 18/08/2019 22:49

Do you have gills, Bespin? Why not see how you and a fish fare on the land comparatively.

2BthatUnnoticed · 18/08/2019 22:49

Detroit Flowers sounds like such a tough situation - glad you have music to give some comfort.

As an aside, I thought Trump passed a federal law which entitled female shelters to be female only, in response to this very issue?

But have individual states / shelters just ignored it?

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 22:51

Clownfish, wrasses, moray eels, gobies and other fish species are known to change sex, including reproductive functions. A school of clownfish is always built into a hierarchy with a female fish at the top. When she dies, the most dominant male changes sex and takes her place.

Oops! Someone here does not understand that the animal species diverged from aquamarine species millennia ago in terms of evolution.

TinselAngel · 18/08/2019 22:53

Given the subject of the thread, how can we not have considered the clown fish sooner? Confused

Themyscira · 18/08/2019 22:54

"But clownfish!" = Silliest gotcha ever. Seriously. Makes you look so foolish.

Ereshkigal · 18/08/2019 22:55

A school of clownfish is always built into a hierarchy with a female fish at the top. When she dies, the most dominant male changes sex and takes her place.

Why hasn't human society reproduced this thus far?