Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Datun · 18/08/2019 18:34

Datun there has never been a poll about post-op transsexuals using female-only spaces.

Okay, that was my question. Because it's an odd poll to run, I have to say.

Most of the men who are post op, don't claim to actually be women. So, I can't imagine, who would be running a poll like that.

It's daft that even when Fieldofgreycorn is refuting how many women transwomen will ignore, they are ignoring women!

RedToothBrush · 18/08/2019 18:49

When I see figures like that and I don't know if they are accurate, I take in good faith, but the argument doesn't even stack up when you do that.

You have to be informed on this subject and it's very clear people aren't.

I've been banging on about this to a circle of friends for over a year. They know it's badly affected me. And it's not like it's not come up in conversation. Yet two weeks ago, something came up and I mentioned something about guiding and they all went 'WTF?!'. All are educated and well informed.

The time this is taking to hit the mark is longer than you expect in many cases.

Fieldofgreycorn · 18/08/2019 19:03

The survey I’m thinking about is one I’ve seen mentioned on this forum a number of times. Will post if I find it.

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 19:10

I'm in the US, and needed a women's shelter.

Across the three states closest to me, I could not find one that did not expect me to share with trans women. Not one. The position of the national helpline is twaw.

This meant I'm sleeping outdoors, while men are given support and shelter.

I was told I had to talk about being triggered and accept it was MY problem . The attitude of these young cool woke women embracing dicks in shelters is absolutely grotesque.

I'm not asking for help. I've got this, in safe. But the people facing Erasure are natal women.

I'm actually scared to post this anywhere. I've given up on trying to access any assistance, and will have to get through this alone.

It's not fucking fair

CharlieParley · 18/08/2019 19:10

Interesting. Just saw the following comment under We need to talk about sexism & homophobia in Gender Activism by Roger Dubar, the editor of Satiria who was recently perma-banned from Twitter for criticising transgender ideology and activism.

Sounds quite like the OP...

as far as “campaigning to get into women’s spaces”… I’ve been in women’s spaces since 1988 without any problems whatsoever

me and my trans sisters also go unmolested into women’s spaces all the time

We don’t campaign for our rights

We take them

get it?

Were not asking your permission

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 18/08/2019 19:12

Take it? Oh, so like a lady huh? Nasty and creepy.

Themyscira · 18/08/2019 19:22

Fucking hell @Detroitin68, that's horrendous. I'm so sorry.

Creepster · 18/08/2019 19:22

When a transgender identified person says post op they usually mean breast surgery, whether they are male or female.

CharlieParley · 18/08/2019 19:29

Detroitin68 I recently listened to women working in the VAW sector here in Scotland discussing the problems they're having with being forced to include males who identify as trans. 99% of the women they deal with have a fear of adult males, no matter how they identify. 99%.

And having spoken to someone in charge of one such organisation, I know now that there are ways to continue to offer a female-only service, even with the current funding conditions (such as one day a week being declared absolutely female-only or housing males who identify as trans separately).

So we now have a two-tier system in the country:

  1. services that understand the needs of traumatised women and cater to them but cannot advertise that fact and

  2. services that insist on including males who identify as trans and who denounced traumatised survivors asking for female-only space as transphobes and bigots all over social media or who in their service policies liken such women to racists and homophobes who must be re-educated out of their prejudiced trauma responses.

The mere existence of the services in the first category proves that this is an ideological choice. Either you put the needs of women and children first, or you prioritise the feelings of adult males. But it's still a choice they have here, despite the funding constraints.

And echoing your experience, I found this tweet by therestofus striking. And upsetting.

The best part of 2019 is all the people telling the women and girls in the refuge I work with that their gut reaction of absolute terror when they see a male in a female only space is down to their conservative attitudes.

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 19:30

It's ok, I don't want pity. I do want women who aren't down and out, who have power and the eloquence I lack, to try and claw back some basic rights to female only spaces.

I was informed the law says that US shelters have to accept trans women, so do homeless shelters.

The pervasive attitude by workers was that as a victim of rape and male violence my not wanting to share with trans women was totally my issue, and as a result I could not access services.

If anyone wants confirmation I guess someone could call the national helpline and ask them to clarify.

What about my rights? They don't matter because I'm born female?

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 19:34

Charlie, please don't give up on fighting for those remaining shelters who cater for women, and honor their pain and fear.

It may well literally save a woman's life. The real bleedy cunty kind.

Why is a dick sleeping in a bed with counselling and support and safety, while I 'camp'.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 20:03

@Detroitin68

"The last time I saw Richard was Detroit in '68"

One of my favourite songs.

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 20:12

Mine too. Blue is my favorite album.

I love Joni.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 20:17

Solidarity, dear sister. I saw your name and it raised my hairs in response to a sweet memory! Thank you for that.

"Hejira" is my favourite Joni album, followed very closely by "Blue".

"Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" is a close third! And then, there is "Hissing of Summer Lawns".

How lovely that you in USA and me in England can share such delight.

And I hear your story, sister. We are here for you whenever you need us to listen.

CharlieParley · 18/08/2019 20:27

Detroitin68 Not intending to give up. Currently trying to puzzle out a way in which we can square a circle though:

Female-only service exists. If advertised as such, it comes under sustained attack by self-id activists and may end up being boycotted/defunded/closed.

If it doesn't advertise, all a traumatised woman hears in public spaces are the voices of those services calling her bigoted for needing a female-only service.

Do we have to go back to an underground system of having knowledge of friendly services be passed secretly from woman to woman? And if so, how?

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 20:29

Want to hear something ridiculous? I took my vinyls of all Joni's albums, and bought a $38 reduced to sell suitcase record player with built in speakers, and moved it into my campsite (which has electric for now at least). It was ridiculous of me. A waste of my money. But it's kept me above water.

Solidarity. I was made to feel like a criminal for saying a penis and me weren't sharing a shelter. I was spoken to roughly at a vulnerable time. It was suggested I needed to adjust my thinking.

I'm looking further afield. I'll fix this problem alone.

Mumsnet is the only sane place on the net on this issue. Don't give up.

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 20:31

I've called places in the surrounding three states. The one place that suggested they have space which was not open to xy people was 2700 miles away. Too far.

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 20:37

I'm actually quite safe and comfortable right now. I should still have had access to female only domestic violence services. I don't know if it's the same in the UK, but there's an alarming trend towards excusing mens violence, and rehabilitation of abusive men. I don't care if he has counselling. I don't care if people change. The damage is done.

I was informed if I gave up my rights to pension and property an easy divorce would be granted. I told the lawyer no way.

The weather is good, ive shelter, showers and enough money to do this a while.

I'm a wild seed again let the wind carry me.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 20:41

"I'm a wild seed again let the wind carry me."

I send you a Rose, dear sister. [A yellow rose!]

Michelleoftheresistance · 18/08/2019 20:43

Why is a dick sleeping in a bed with counselling and support and safety, while I 'camp'

This is the part I can't get past. The part that makes my blood boil.

If you, as a woman, cannot deal with a male in your space because of your needs and your identity or your protected characteristics - disabilities, race, culture, trauma, whatever - the TRAs and the captured system are fine with denying you a right to any services at all. Your civil rights are removed.

They are that loving. That intersectional. That inclusive. That kind.
They will happily see women without provision at all, as a punishment for not centering the feelings of men who want their services to validate them among other things, not just meet the basic needs women are crying out for.

Live and let live? Don't make me laugh.

It's wicked. It's wrong.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 20:55

Do we have to go back to an underground system of having knowledge of friendly services be passed secretly from woman to woman?

I think we may have to. It is the involvement of govt funding that has caused this problem because it has permitted the aggressive lobbying of national and local govt by Trans organisations that has now destroyed our women's services in UK.

Michelleoftheresistance · 18/08/2019 21:07

I agree, I think this is where it has to go. Women setting up resources for women, again, from scratch, raising the funds and running them - like they set up the first lot that men have commandeered. In order to be allowed to meet the needs of women in women's services.

Detroitin68 · 18/08/2019 21:13

How would xy people be kept out of these spaces, legally?

I feel like I've gone insane trying to define man and woman to a bunch of woke children

Ereshkigal · 18/08/2019 21:25

They will happily see women without provision at all, as a punishment for not centering the feelings of men who want their services to validate them among other things, not just meet the basic needs women are crying out for.

Live and let live? Don't make me laugh.

It's wicked. It's wrong.

This. And "feminist" women cheerleading it.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 18/08/2019 21:35

How would xy people be kept out of these spaces, legally?

In the UK, our Equality Act 2010 provides the protections that are needed for women's spaces, services, etc. The problem is that the men who mostly constitute the Trans Lobby here have misrepresented that law to our public institutions [and those institutions are too lazy to study that law in detail for themselves] which means that the specific protections for women's spaces, services, etc are being ignored.

Swipe left for the next trending thread