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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
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LangCleg · 16/08/2019 23:01

unseen heights of extremism

One of the more interesting descriptions of women talking to each other that I've seen.

terryleather · 16/08/2019 23:06

It's late and I've had a drink so can't remember if saying yawn or bless will get one deleted...?

NotTerfNorCis · 16/08/2019 23:06

No feminists are 'seeking to rid the streets' of trans people.

Trohmaniac · 16/08/2019 23:08

Eh, nah.

Wurzelsnewhead · 16/08/2019 23:08

Ah, a good old Friday night rant. At first glance I thought this was going to be a strange stand off between mtf and the lovely lycra clad Erasure. Disappointed in an odd way.
As for your threats, keep them.

HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 16/08/2019 23:10

Wow, well that's a way to alienate more women allies.

PencilsInSpace · 16/08/2019 23:10

Transsexuals are not allies to feminists. If they were they'd be campaigning for third spaces or any other solutions they can come up with that don't shit on women and children.

ViciousTrollop · 16/08/2019 23:11

"I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets."

Transsexual women face erasure
LangCleg · 16/08/2019 23:11

It's late and I've had a drink so can't remember if saying yawn or bless will get one deleted...?

Maybe try Weetabix?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 16/08/2019 23:11

Pointing out that men who identify as women are still male isn't an insult. Human beings can't change sex. It's just factual.

I don't really have the energy to pick your diatribe apart tonight but I didn't find it convincing.

You're quite misled in saying most of us weren't born when you had your surgery. There's a wide age range here among regular posters. I'm well into middle age.

Like so many of our evangelising visitors (we get a lot) the assumptions you make say more about yourself than about regulars on this board.

PencilsInSpace · 16/08/2019 23:11

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder.

Uhuh Hmm

FredaFrogspawn · 16/08/2019 23:13

I have a great deal of sympathy for you. For many years, post-op transsexual women have quietly existed, in the main part accepted without issues in many women’s spaces. I think this has been a forgotten nuance in the current ‘all or nothing’ arguments. You are paying a very high price in these gender wars.

LangCleg · 16/08/2019 23:13

Pencils!

drspouse · 16/08/2019 23:14

Pointing out that men who identify as women are still male isn't an insult. Human beings can't change sex. It's just factual.
And a lot of transsexuals understand this, happily go by "he" and use men's toilets.
I for one am pleased to welcome a feminine man who knows he's a man as an ally.

TinselAngel · 16/08/2019 23:15

lager-drinking bloke

Who knew it was lager that was the problem? I quite like a lager.

KickOffTheSundayShoes · 16/08/2019 23:15

What Pencils said. In a nutshell.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 16/08/2019 23:16

Now I could really fancy some Weetabix, Lang - you having mentioned it - but I haven't got any. Could I have a virtual bowl? But hold the banana...

RedDogsBeg · 16/08/2019 23:16

Where was your anger and voice when women were being battered, their meetings subject to bomb threats, their meetings being disrupted and attempts made to shut them down, when women were being doxxed and abused on Twitter, when women were being threatened with loosing their livelihoods?

I can count on the fingers of one hand the transexuals who stood up, spoke out and were counted, where were you?

All I hear is that those like you were too frightened to put your head above the parapet but you were more than happy for women to do so and risk having their heads metaphorically shot off.

You could have been part of the solution, you chose not to be.

No, women were not consulted about the inclusion of transexuals in their sex segregated spaces and whenever it was it would have been at the very least polite to ask. The GRA came in by stealth, the architects of it have admitted as much and are exceptionally pleased with themselves for having achieved such a coup.

PencilsInSpace · 16/08/2019 23:16

^Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children.^

Why? Both sexes are welcome in these spaces.

BrokenLogs · 16/08/2019 23:18

Another agreesive fuck-off-females-that's-you-told post.

And don't chuck the word feminists like it's a bad thing. Replace that with women and see how it reads then.

And you may 'pass', but your chromosomes don't.

BrokenLogs · 16/08/2019 23:19

Aggressive 🙄

LizzieSiddal · 16/08/2019 23:20

Oh god it’s all women’s fault again.

Thanks for reminding us!

MadgeMidgerson · 16/08/2019 23:21

u ok hun?

terryleather · 16/08/2019 23:21

Lang, you always take it too far and that is why we loves u.......

TinselAngel · 16/08/2019 23:21

Parklife!