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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
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IdaBWells · 17/08/2019 06:24

Spinster:
Women's perspective = free to talk without being censored or banned by men.
Men's perspective = heights of extremism.

Yes, we are EXTREMELY female, true that.

I had no idea that as a 50 yr old I was a "Radical Feminist" but I just asked a few benign questions about transgenderism and was immediately silenced and called a TERF. It is actually MEN labeling me "radical". My husband of 23 yrs is bemused by the whole thing, as he holds exactly the same views as me; but by being 6'2" and male, other men always allow him to say whatever he wants. With the exact same views he is never told they are the "height of extremism".

Funny that.

That's what "male privilege" is. Noone is trying to supervise his life and speech and telling him he's doing it wrong and needs to be nice to everyone.

Lamahaha · 17/08/2019 06:58

You're quite misled in saying most of us weren't born when you had your surgery. There's a wide age range here among regular posters. I'm well into middle age.

I'm 68. 'Nuff said.
Once again I'm bowled over by the eloquence of MNers. I love you lot. Kind when you need to be, but never sentimental or nicey-nice.

This about sums up my own response:

OP we don’t have to listen to your self indulgent whining. Take it to the TRAs, they’re the ones who’ve fucked you over. Feminists have been on your side for years, but now the gender bollocks has ruined it for everyone. They’re the reason you can’t have nice things.

Rinse, repeat. You're on the wrong forum. Take it to the men.

fortheloveofnotthisagain · 17/08/2019 07:00

This reply has been deleted

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OpheliaTodd · 17/08/2019 07:06

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BustedWench · 17/08/2019 07:27

Ah mate, there is a LOT to unpack in those overtly threatening ramblings, but I for one can't be arsed to attempt it because a) I've not had a coffee yet and b) you're looking like the unreasonable type

nanovoid · 17/08/2019 07:29

Joanne has my support, I totally understand where she is coming from.

Had the umbrella term "transgender" never appeared then I think today would be a different place.

Being post op intersex I can commiserate with you and stand aligned with my ts sisters, think you are brave coming into the vipers nest though as am probably the only one who will agree with you.

I wouldn't worry about the comments on here though nor let them affect you.

Chin up kid Smile

OhtheHillsareAlive · 17/08/2019 07:31

I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

ODFOD

IfIShouldFallFromGraceWithGod · 17/08/2019 07:34

The GRA should never have been passed. Fiction should not be law
You would be happier accepting your own reality and not demanding or expecting anything from other people. You are no more special than any of us

ALittleBitofVitriol · 17/08/2019 07:39

Throwing insults and flouncing. So brave. Much stunning.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 17/08/2019 07:45

Wow, that's a nice rant to wake up to.

Allow me to be blunt.

I am neither your mother nor your therapist and your hurty hurty fee fees are not my problem.

sackrifice · 17/08/2019 07:53

Joanne has my support, I totally understand where she is coming from

Yeah if only you women would shut up, we could have it all.

Male when we want women to shut up
Women when we want access to your spaces
Trans when we need to win the oppression olympics.

AMIRITE?

Passionaria · 17/08/2019 07:56

They [trans activists] insult us further by calling us men Ermm, could it be because you are a male?

and insisting we submit to male pronouns Aww, diddums.

and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any). Don't be daft. Male privilege is heaped on with a JCB from about day one of life.

Feminists can do their worst Well that's us told - know our place and be nice. Just sod right off.

GirlDownUnder · 17/08/2019 07:57

@nanovoid new poster or name change Hmm

And only one supporting @joannegosling2 Hmm

And no sign of a reply from OP

Right oh

Rimmss · 17/08/2019 07:59

So... a man is happy to throw women under the bus, even if that means nullifying sex based rights for them, just to have legal right to call himself a woman, and enter female only spaces, and is unhappy women aren't willing to lay down and die. Same old, same old.

Women constitutea half of population. What does it tell about strength of patriarchy that we're losing fight with fewer than 1% of men?

YouJustDoYou · 17/08/2019 08:00

I wouldn't worry about the comments on here though nor let them affect you

Oh bless. Let me clue you in - op isn't worried in the SLIGHTEST. Because these types love to come on to the feminist chat board, usually either late on a Friday night or at some 1am or so hour at the week, and have a lovely lovely rambling rant with no actual coherent or intelligent content. They then flounce off, never to be seen again. They don't read these posts or comments, because they're not serious.

YouJustDoYou · 17/08/2019 08:00

*at the weekend

GroggyLegs · 17/08/2019 08:04

nanovoid I think you'll find plenty of people have said they acknowledge:
Had the umbrella term "transgender" never appeared then I think today would be a different place.

It's the plopping of a misogynistic & racist rant on a board populated by people who are not responsible for her struggles that's got Joanne a barrel of ODFOD, not being transexual.

That's not brave.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 17/08/2019 08:04

In the words of Ricky Gervais 'Right, you're talking shit. Explain yourself'

I wonder what Joanne's hangover is going to be like, this morning??

What are the chances of some overnight introspection, cos that was some serious self pity going on, last night!?

Do we think they'll be back?

howdyalikemenow · 17/08/2019 08:06

Plopped and ran!?

OhHolyJesus · 17/08/2019 08:10

Plopped and ran is right. Is it me or is it often on a Fri, just when the weekend mods are coming on duty? Hmm

AlessandraAsteriti · 17/08/2019 08:13

This obsession with being able to use female toilets is telling.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 17/08/2019 08:18

I do feel sorry for old school transsexuals. To have gender dysphoria and be willing (as an adult) to go through all those operations to help it must be tough indeed.

Any dissension is met with vitriol usually only reserved for t*rfs. Names like truscum etc.

A medical condition has been totally hijacked.

On a personal level I always felt transsexual women to be like our cousins. Not the same exactly but not the same as men.

I guess though it's all about lines and boundaries and how we draw them to protect women, as well as transsexuals.

I think your anger against us op is misplaced. We have been massively the underdog in this debate.

Hamster00 · 17/08/2019 08:21

Ok OP. I've not had coffee but I'll give this a go.

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem.

Yes we are, every transsexual who is using women's single sex spaces is infringing on the rights of women.

This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd.
No it wasn't - do some research

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege

So what - biologically we're still male, and yes we do. Next...

To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

GRA is not needed anymore. Go look at some threads on this forum for reasons why. (Written by more eloquent and awake posters than myself)

Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets.

Like that's ever going to work. "Conditions" are not going to stop a crossdressing man sexually assaulting a woman.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group.

Who?!? Ridiculous statement. Women are not trying to erase transsexuals/transgender community. If anything it's the other way around.

There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men.

Biologically we are men. Sorry but reality doesn't scare or offend me.

Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

Who is trying to erase transsexuals? You mention this a couple of times. Name names, or are you referring to the big scary women who are trying to protect their own spaces, look after their own safety and the safeguarding of their kids.

Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets.

We dont pass - women can ALWAYS tell. Passing is a lie.

I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards.

Anything I reply to this statement will get my thread deleted. I think those who know me on this forum will KNOW what I'm thinking though.

I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic....

Ok I think this says it all really.

I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots

What a delightfully racist statement

PS As for the lager comment, I had a night in with some female friends (women) last night. We ALL got absolutely hammered - and guess what, the language would have had you clutching your pearls!

Now I'm going to go and nurse my hangover. I'd be interested to see your responses if you do reply...

mummmy2017 · 17/08/2019 08:22

I attended an event this week with an under 10 little girl.
She asked me why all the people dressed to the nines, full make up heels, very tall big feet were using the ladies.
I explained to her that the event was in London and some men felt they were really woman.. oh she says...
Then she said but your born a man or a woman, because of your body, even I know that.

DickKerrLadies · 17/08/2019 08:22

Sexism, racism and ageism - all in one plopped post.

And that was supposed to convince us you're not like the TG activists?