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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
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DuMondeB · 17/08/2019 00:43

Start of page 4 and my fellow cunty-Mumsnetters have already made all the points I wanted to.

Apart from this:

Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago

A) It’s been a while since I was last mistaken for a 20 something.
B) Even if we were all under 30, doesn’t mean we don’t have a right to speak out when our boundaries are being eroded.

Transwo men saying they don’t believe in male privilege is exactly why All Women Shortlists need to be for biological women only.
How can a transsexual male possibly represent us when they literally know fuck all about our struggles?

30to50FeralHogs · 17/08/2019 01:00

I thought JanesKettle nailed it with this post

The denial of privilege is toxic. Go away and do some work on that. Why on earth would you expect women to listen to a male-socialised, anti-feminist rant ? I wouldn't listen to an MRA - your gender dysphoric status doesn't compel me to listen to you either.

But then I saw the next one, which even more eloquently sums it up.

What a lot of specious wank

I’m so tired of the bullshit I can’t be arsed to write anything myself, so bored of it all the fucking time.

OP we don’t have to listen to your self indulgent whining. Take it to the TRAs, they’re the ones who’ve fucked you over. Feminists have been on your side for years, but now the gender bollocks has ruined it for everyone. They’re the reason you can’t have nice things.

SwearyG · 17/08/2019 01:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

differentnameforthis · 17/08/2019 01:03

maybe you don't pass because your male entitlement is showing?

You seem to have no idea that it is a group of Self-IDing TW that are causing this, do you? No, you just want to blame women because it handily fits your narrative and your back story that we were mean to you before you transitioned.

Next you will be saying that we forced your transition too.

OldCrone · 17/08/2019 01:03

Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago

Interesting that we're assumed to be young on here. I thought the usual assumption was that we're all 'old and irrelevant'.

Datun · 17/08/2019 01:24

One group of men pissed off with another group of men and blaming women?

Could this movement get any more predictable?

Datun · 17/08/2019 01:28

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days

Yeah, there's nothing more misogynistic or foul or abusive or entitled than telling women you intend to violate their boundaries whenever you like and there's nothing they can do, is there?

Honestly, it's literally patriarchy in action.

OvaHere · 17/08/2019 01:48

If the hardline stance that women have been forced to take for self preservation upsets you I suggest you go take it up with Stonewall and other TRA orgs that have caused this.

I disagree that 'you' are not the problem. It was the TS people from years back that lobbied in secret and had the GRA passed under the radar of the public. Hansard has a record of the parliamentary debates and all the logical concerns raised about the dangers of creating a legal fiction have now come to pass.

None of this is the fault of women who are now being shit on from a great height. So go have your pity party some place else.

ThePurported · 17/08/2019 01:56

30 years ago, you say? I used to know someone who had the op round about that time. A thoroughly nice person, never used women's toilets. God rest his soul Wine

emerencemaybehopeful · 17/08/2019 02:09

At least the OP recognises that they are not in the category of woman?

But they intend to continue trampling our boundaries while being a racist twat.

Lovely.

And as someone else said what is it with the tinkerbell thing?

Creepster · 17/08/2019 02:13

For many years, post-op transsexual women have quietly existed, in the main part accepted without issues in many women’s spaces.

No, they have not been accepted without issue in women's spaces. They used to complain loud and long that they were never accepted in women's spaces, and now they claim that they were always accepted.
Nope.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 17/08/2019 02:13

Awww, wee lamb thinks were all under 30! preens

Cry. Me. A. River.

owlonabike · 17/08/2019 04:49

One of the most arrogant posts I’ve ever read on MN.

owlonabike · 17/08/2019 05:08

OP, that is. Obviously.

Bespin · 17/08/2019 05:21

Well someone had a little too much wine didn't they. Oh well.

AllNaturalWoman · 17/08/2019 05:39

I missed the casual age based misogyny in the middle.

Nice by which I mean it really isn't but it's oh so predictable to see 'living as a woman' for 30 years has had no impact on your undying hatred for women

Women are either frequently dismissed by men for being too young and frivolous/ignorant or dismissed by men for being too old to be relevant. Not recognising that is misogyny is male privilege in action.

boatyardblues · 17/08/2019 05:53

Women are either frequently dismissed by men for being too young and frivolous/ignorant or dismissed by men for being too old to be relevant. Not recognising that is misogyny is male privilege in action.

Like pears and avocados, there must be 2-3 month window at some point in our early 30s when we are ‘just right’ and deserve to be heard.

Myfoolishboatisleaning · 17/08/2019 05:58

Women can always tell. It is hard wired for our safety. Don’t dismiss our concerns.

Ladyfat · 17/08/2019 06:02

Oddly enough male people ARE men. Happy to clear that up.

AllNaturalWoman · 17/08/2019 06:11

And OP your comparison to apartheid is just old fashioned 'poor me' racism of the white male who can't believe they aren't being treated as the most important person around for once

EverardDigby · 17/08/2019 06:17

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either

So this explains why some transwomen start out being resentful of women.

AyeRobot · 17/08/2019 06:22

How are you not self id-ing too? Why do you separate yourself?

A man without a cock is not a woman - whatever made you think it did?

YouJustDoYou · 17/08/2019 06:22

Pattern - ranting op comes in, has a lovely long rant (containing zero actual fact), and never appears again. Yawn.

Also, For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

ODFOD. You have absolutely no fucking clue what apartheid was actually like. You're just having you're little drama rant, feeling speshal in the role you've given yourself. Try telling that apartheid shit to someone whose actually suffered through it.

SophoclesTheFox · 17/08/2019 06:22

Ah, if only we’d been nicer, OP could have continued to pretend to give a shit about women. We are awful. Nasty, nasty women.

I presume OP was so distressed by having to write such an unladylike screed that OP had to retire to the fainting couch with some sal volatile to recover so that’s why they haven’t been back?

YouJustDoYou · 17/08/2019 06:23

So this explains why some transwomen start out being resentful of women

Yup. Incel material.