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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
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LauraMipsum · 16/08/2019 23:50

I agree.

Those who have been worst served by the new definition of 'transgender' as "anyone who isn't comfortable with sex stereotypes" are transsexuals - who literally dare not speak their name any more. They're now 1% of their own movement, taken over by people who are not transsexual, who are not dysphoric, and have an aggressive belief in the regressive concept of gender identity.

Up until very recently a GRC was a bright line, legally. Trans meant someone who completely transitioned. Now it doesn't, which means that we can no longer even contemplate including trans women in the legal category of women - where 15 years ago we probably could, if only because rarity meant proportionality.

I'm not surprised that transsexuals are pissed off. It's part of a wider movement though - transgender replacing transsexual, queer replacing LGB, GSM replacing LGBT and so on.

GroggyLegs · 16/08/2019 23:51

TLDR but I get the gist.

I understand why you're annoyed but your anger is misdirected. You've written a similar saga on a TRA chat board I assume?

And not wanting entire male bodies in female spaces is not the same as apartheid.

And nobody wants anyone erased Hmm... oh except maybe that one person & they wasn't a feminist.

YobaOljazUwaque · 16/08/2019 23:54

"We must cease to exist as a group", "outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society" - one thing you do seem to share with the self-ID crowd is the belief that disagreement is the same thing as wanting you not to exist.

I do have great sympathy with the situation of transsexual people. It is awful that the limited resources available for treating those with overwhelming dysphoria are being swamped by those who don't actually have dysphoria.

My understanding was that before the TRA madness started, if one got to the point where physicians agreed that surgery was the best treatment, then part of the pre-surgery counselling included the patient needing to acknowledge and sign in agreement that the surgery would not actually cause a change of sex - is that not so?

Because the point of all this is that we cannot and will not agree that a woman can be defined as someone who wears feminine clothes and presents in a feminine way. Nor is a vagina any constructed tube closed off at one end that can host a penis.

That doesn't mean that transwomen don't exist and certainly doesn't equate to any kind of hatred. Exist. Be you. Be free. Only limit is you don't get to force your beliefs on others and some of us choose to believe in scientific reality.

Transwomen will continue to exist and I hope they can do free and happy without any discrimination. No one should suffer discrimination because of who they are. And I hope that society evolves so that a transwoman would never be ashamed or frightened to acknowledge they are a transwoman - and there's nothing wrong with being a transwoman, just that its not the same as being a woman.

Hyperbole about being excluded from parks, libraries, shopping centres as the next logical step after toilets and hospital wards is just ridiculous. There are no single-sex parks and shopping centres. (There was a women only library once. Obviously it's been forcibly closed now)

donquixotedelamancha · 16/08/2019 23:55

Burried in there is an interesting point about how transsexuals are erased by Genderists.

If posted on a different forum by a sober and succinct OP it might be interesting.

littlecabbage · 16/08/2019 23:55

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

Only those raised WITHOUT male privilege are able to see it. You know, actual XX women.

70sWitch · 16/08/2019 23:56

Sorry, did I miss something? TRAs want the GRA scrapped?
Since when?

This seems pretty unlikely. What will they be self ID ing into without it?

RadicalFern · 16/08/2019 23:56

I can't decide if my favourite bit was the bit where you said if women can't be nice we don't deserve allies, or the bit where you compared a male person using female facilities to freedom from segregation and abuse for black people.

LizzieVereker · 16/08/2019 23:57

I don’t think you’ve got too much to worry about when it comes to facing Erasure. They’re looking a bit paunchy, and I reckon you could take ‘em.

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 16/08/2019 23:57

You can't change your biological sex. That's all really. You won't find validation here. You had all the rights you needed as a man.
I won't have mine removed for men who want the world and more.

LizzieVereker · 16/08/2019 23:57

See?

Transsexual women face erasure
GirlDownUnder · 17/08/2019 00:00

What a lot of words.

You could have just said “I don’t like you”

Meh.

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 17/08/2019 00:01

How dare you equate this nonsense to the struggle of black people. Utterly sickening. You need a damn reality check. Angry

jennymanara · 17/08/2019 00:03

It is interesting OP that you assume there were no issues 30 or more years ago when there were. The difference was these issues happened in a much smaller number of women only spaces so most were not aware of what was happening.

Mamello · 17/08/2019 00:04

Deary me OP. You do seem in a bad mood for a Friday night. But you don't have to stamp your feet at us, most of us have dealt with plenty of that in our time. Perhaps a cup of camomile tea and a lie down?.

Redshoeblueshoe · 17/08/2019 00:05

Lizzie Grin

AllNaturalWoman · 17/08/2019 00:07

What a lot of specious wank

you're not bloody tinkerbell

Succinct and to the point I do love FWR Mnetters Grin

teawamutu · 17/08/2019 00:08

Up until very recently a GRC was a bright line, legally. Trans meant someone who completely transitioned. Now it doesn't, which means that we can no longer even contemplate including trans women in the legal category of women - where 15 years ago we probably could, if only because rarity meant proportionality.

Brilliant incisive explanation, Laura. Sums it up beautifully.

TheABC · 17/08/2019 00:08

Nice bit of victim playing going on there, OP.

Originally, yes, I would say "live and let live". But with the blatent misogyny on display from the TRA's, what did you expect, but a hardening of positions. Women have been attacked at their most vulnerable in refuges and prisons, thanks to the trans ideology.

If you are that upset, start campaigning against them.

OldCrone · 17/08/2019 00:11

This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd.

The GRA came about because of campaigning by people like Stephen Whittle (transsexual) and Christine Burns (transsexual) of Press for Change. They are also campaigning for the GRA reforms. Maybe take up your grievances with them.

Women are not responsible for the disagreements between all the different factions sheltering under the trans umbrella.

pombear · 17/08/2019 00:14

Oh, fuck it, 'mothing' for one post!

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder.

From your above sentence, I don't think you like the group of people (aka females) who represent your erotic target location error very much.

Therefore, I have a problem with all your other words in your post.

BlancheBeachcomber · 17/08/2019 00:15

OP you're clearly very quick to jump on a board frequented by women. I too would like to know where else you've posted your angry, seemingly drunk, rant? Hmm

It's not all about you, you know?

AlunWynsKnee · 17/08/2019 00:18

Another 50+ woman who wasn't consulted.
You got an inch and now you want a mile and somehow it's women's fault for not giving it.

Ereshkigal · 17/08/2019 00:23

No pizza. But I have got a Ripple. And a tipple.

Have a tipple. But fucking jealous of your Ripple. In a small Spanish town where all the shops are closed.

TurboTeddy · 17/08/2019 00:26

You seem surprised by this turn of events. It was entirely predictable. The extreme behaviour of the TRA's was always going to have a backlash which swept up transsexuals. Feminists warned about it. Where were you? Waiting to see which way the wind blew before you nailed your colours to the mast? And now you try appeal to female socialisation by using "we're allies" but then finish with, "oh yeah, fuck you".
I think made yourself pretty clear and it hasn't helped your cause.

Harriettenightingale · 17/08/2019 00:27

It's not all about you, you know?

It is. Everything is about them and their terrible struggles with the world. No one else has anything remotely interesting to contribute or speak of.