Shocking behaviour towards lesbians at Leeds 'pride' today

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

Thread 2

Previous thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3656142-Shocking-behaviour-towards-lesbians-at-Leeds-pride-today

Discrimination laws already protect those from discrimination based on a perceived characteristic. For example, if I discriminate against you because I think your a lesbian, it’s against the law, even if you’re not.

EarlyWalker: Please define "lesbian".

I’ve answered so many questions and not had any of mine answered. So I’d appreciate it if someone could answer this one, with actual fact.

Since this is ultimately the basis of what you’ve been saying page after page.

Does allowing transwoman to identify as lesbians, make lesbians any less protected by law?

actually datun if you assess it from a place without an agenda it makes perfect sense.

Course I've got an agenda. You know all about my agenda. The protection of women's rights and women as a distinct category. I'm completely upfront. What is interesting to me is that you take the opposite view point to me. And your agenda is the opposite to mine. I'd like to know why. Your agenda is solely about men. It's not about women at all.

No one needs to sleep with anyone they don’t want too. No one should be told they can’t sleep with anyone they want too. You don’t get to define whether someone is the correct version of a lesbian.

^ this is risible.

For example, if I discriminate against you because I think your a lesbian, it’s against the law,

Do you see what you did?

You proved the point that what other people think you sexual orientation is matters more that what you think yourself. What label others give you is important.

It does not matter if any of the TRAs at pride think their are lesbians. What matters is if others perceive they are lesbians.

Lots of people do not perceive them to be lesbians. The law doesnt not perceive them to be lesbians.

I gave you an example of how important the use of the word woman and lesbian is and why its damaging g to women and lesbians to allow men to say they are women and lesbians.

But you convienetky side stepped it.

Do you live in UK, EarlyWalker .. are you are subject to UK law?

You honestly can't see why a heterosexual couple calling themselves lesbians is a problem?

I don't believe you.

Those saying there agenda is about women - it's only for women if they agree with you.
It's not for women's rights at all.
Rights for some women.
The right so called type of women.
How that's any better than males telling us what to do or say is anyone's guess.

their not there argh FFS

What recourse in law would I have against you Early? I don't fit the criteria of lesbian therefore I cannot sue you for discrimination on the basis of being a lesbian because I'm not one.

RosesAndRaindrops no.

The words women and lesbian are important to all women. Wether that woman sleeps with women or men or trans men.

I have given an example of why those words are important but you an early dont want to acknowledge it.

Does allowing transwoman to identify as lesbians, make lesbians any less protected by law?

Yes, because with no definition for trans woman, essentially anyone can identify as a lesbian, so the word becomes meaningless and the law becomes meaningless.

Anyone can be a lesbian so nobody is a lesbian.

Protected characteristics exist because we have identified groups of people who face prejudice or are unable to participate equally in society for specific reasons. Take away language that defines people who have protected a protected characteristic and there is no longer any reason to protect them, and no longer any need for equality law.

What rights do I want to deprive women of, Rose?

UK law does not refer to "perception" anywhere in the Equalities Act 2010 or in the UK GRA 2004... EarlyWalker may not be a UK citizen who is subject to UK law.

EarlyWalker may be a citizen of a USA state, a Canadian state or an Australian state perhaps?

No, Roses rights for all women, adult human females, there is no other type.

datun there are parts of this debate that I agree with you wholeheartedly on and I believe they pose a danger to woman and girls. Other parts, I don’t agree on.
The difference is I don’t try and imply you’re some woman hating lunatic when I disagree with you.

You proved the point that what other people think you sexual orientation is matters more that what you think yourself. What label others give you is important.

If you think that, why do you care so much what people call themselves?

Yes jacky

Now is anyone going to answer my question with actual fact as opposed to opinion?

Rights for some women.
The right so called type of women.

It doesn't really matter what I think of another woman. We all know which women are refused the right to drive, go to school, get a job, vote etc., and it has nothing whatsoever to do with their identity.

I'm a man who can't stand women, or lesbians. I refuse to have them work in my company. And they try to sue me. But under your conditions, I can say look, i have all these women are lesbians working in my company. All of them could be men. Because I'm fine with men.

We'll fight for women.
Only the right type of woman though.
If anyone disagrees with what we say, we'll dismiss them as not knowing their own mind, bless 'em.
It's not equality for all women at all.
However much some pretend otherwise.

Does allowing transwoman to identify as lesbians, make lesbians any less protected by law

It changes it a to a heterosexual relationship after homosexuals fought for their rights and protections as HOMOSEXUALS.

The difference is I don’t try and imply you’re some woman hating lunatic when I disagree with you.

Ahhh. Logic. At last.

Incorrect jacky

Discrimination by perception happens when a person is discriminated against because they are thought to have a particular protected characteristic when in fact they do not. If you discriminate against people because you think they are transsexual or gay, for example, then they will be protected even if they do not have these protected characteristics.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85022/vcs-association-perception.pdf

It's not for women's rights at all.
Rights for some women.
The right so called type of women.

What rights am I depriving women of, roses?

Roaes

Women we will fight for all women - all human females in fact, so girls as well. We will not fight for males they can fight for themselves and have done very successfully for centuries.

early what is your agenda?

Would you prefer if those lesbians stopped going to Pride, so that TWs could be unchallenged in their ID as lesbian?