Shocking behaviour towards lesbians at Leeds 'pride' today

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

Thread 2

Previous thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3656142-Shocking-behaviour-towards-lesbians-at-Leeds-pride-today

Tolerance and live and let live for all at Pride? Tolerance and live and let live for all at Pride? Yes to fetishists and dodgy men with connections to paedophiles

Did I say, anywhere, anything like that?
I specifically said I was referring to L, G, B, and T.
I have repeatedly said I don't agree with fetish tents being there.

Its factual. If you have a penis you aren't a lesbian.

Men who have no penis are not lesbians.

Lesbians are not castrated men.

If a lesbian wants to sleep with a transwoman, or a transwoman wants to sleep with lesbians and both are happy and wish to identify as lesbians, I can’t think of a single reason why this harms anybody.

Exactly, if they're both consenting, happy adults, who are they harming?
That doesn't take away anyone's rights.

If a lesbian wants to sleep with a transwoman, or a transwoman wants to sleep with lesbians andbothare happy and wish to identify as lesbians, I can’t think of a single reason why this harms anybody.

Then this is the issue. You clearly dont know enough about the impact its having on lesbians to keep pretending this lie.

And its factually incorrect.

Why do men engaging in heterosexual sex, all of a sudden get entrance to groups for lesbians?

Why not just let hero men in in the first place. Why have a lesbian group at all?

Good forbid a group of women who have no sexual interest in men, meet up without men.

It's a very odd position to take.

That lesbians can reject transwomen, as a cohort on the basis of biological sex.

But men can still call themselves lesbians and if they happen to have sex with someone who, up until then, said they were a lesbian, it's lesbian sex.

It's so unbelievably male centric.

I know some men desperately want to be called lesbians. It's all part of AGP.

It you cany under stand that calling biological men 'women' and 'lesbians' the n you dont understand the issue.

I went into a shelter briefly after being raped by my, then, husband.

It would have harmed me greatly to have been dealt with or made to mix with men, when I needed a safe shelter, away from men.

If you cant understand that, you never will.

I'll go back to it. A vegan who eats eggs is a vegetarian. A vegan who is open to eating eggs, is a vegetarian.

If you invite a friend over for dinner. Wether they are vegan or vegetarian is important.

Words matter. TRAs agree that words matter. Hence them complaining about misgendering. If words dont matter, why does it matter if they are called he or she?

actually datun if you assess it from a place without an agenda it makes perfect sense.

No one needs to sleep with anyone they don’t want too. No one should be told they can’t sleep with anyone they want too. You don’t get to define whether someone is the correct version of a lesbian.

Everyone keeps their noses out of other woman’s consensual sex lives.

You don’t get to define whether someone is thecorrectversion of a lesbian.

But the law and equalities act does.

But men can still call themselves lesbians and if they happen to have sex with someone who, up until then, said they were a lesbian, it's lesbian sex.

Are we back to 2D + L = 69?!

Those were the days!

I think in the end the question is whether you prioritise affirmation of identity or protection of rights.

Having some knowledge of history and awareness of the conditions that many women live in now, I choose protection of rights.

Fuxxake. I mucked it up.

I think in the end the question is whether you prioritise affirmation of identity or protection of rights.

You cannot do the former without defaulting to extant power structures. For example: a large number of men baying abuse at a small number of women.

But the law and equalities act does.

I have asked several times but no one has responded. What’s the obsession with the law and equality act definitions?

Does allowing transwoman to identify as lesbians, make lesbians any less protected by law?

Sorry if it’s a silly question, but why would an OMAB person, who is attracted to women, need to be called a lesbian?

You can just marry as a boring hetero couple innit. Like gender aside, doesn’t heterosexual still apply? And if so, when and how have hetero couples been oppressed, exactly?

You really can see no problem with diluting a law designed to safeguard and protect lesbians and gay men by including those who 'perceive' themselves as lesbian or gay?

Seriously?

The law defines and decides whether someone is the correct version of lesbian or gay, not you, not me.

If a lesbian wants to sleep with a transwoman, or a transwoman wants to sleep with lesbians and both are happy and wish to identify as lesbians, I can’t think of a single reason why this harms anybody.

A definition of bisexuality. ^

Exactly, if they're both consenting, happy adults, who are they harming? That doesn't take away anyone's rights.

It is not lesbian sexuality either. And that is the point.

You know this and you are persisting in baiting lesbians about this.

Please just stop doing this.

Everyone keeps their noses out of other woman’s consensual sex lives.

For most of history women have not had any legal recourse if forced into non-consensual sex, and until very recently sex was regarded as a wife's duty. Female sex outside marriage was regarded as a very public concern, and the result was often shame and exile. It still is in many cultures.

We have rights that our grandmothers didn't because we have language that creates policies and legislation that protects women. Throw away the language, throw away the rights.

And if so, when and how have hetero couples been oppressed, exactly?

Who knows?

I have asked several times but no one has responded. What’s the obsession with the law and equality act definitions?

Does allowing transwoman to identify as lesbians, make lesbians any less protected by law?

Why persist in this baiting of lesbians?

We all know that men, however they choose to present themselves; whatever sexuality they live with can never be lesbians.

Why do you persist in this cruel baiting of lesbians?

Why do you persist in destroying the meaning of their sexuality as women?

Does allowing transwoman to identify as lesbians, make lesbians any less protected by law?

Yes, it does. You cannot identify as a lesbian you either are one as per the legal definition or you are not. How can the law regarding discrimination be upheld if people can arbitrarily define themselves as belonging to a category to which they do not meet the criteria?

What’s the obsession with the law and equality act definitions?
Are you serious.

Because that's what the campaigning was about in the first place. So that people couldnt discriminate against someone because they are in a same sex relationship.

It's the legal definition.

It's like saying 'god why do people keep saying should drive 30 mph in a 30. What's the obsession with the law??'.

Because it's the law. The laws are there for a reason. Not for shits and giggles.

by including those who perceive themselves as lesbian or gay

Discrimination laws already protect those from discrimination based on a percieved characteristic. For example, if I discriminate against you because I think your a lesbian, it’s against the law, even if you’re not.

Be great if someone could answer my question though. This is what you’re fighting for?

Sorry if it’s a silly question, but why would an OMAB person, who is attracted to women, need to be called a lesbian?

No one seems to be able to answer why it is so important to keep the lesbian label or want the lesbian label, when in a hero relationship or open to hetro relationships.

Its bizarre. I would love the label of victoria secret model. My ass tells me that bot going to happen and just insisting you all think of me a victoria secret model, doesnt make it real 😔