Page 37 | Shocking behaviour towards lesbians at Leeds 'pride' today

RosesAndRaindrops · 07/08/2019 17:57

Haven't responded? Just did. Must have been a cross post

JackyHolyoake · 07/08/2019 17:58

I said if you go to Pride with the intention of protesting about the T part of the LGBT you can't expect everyone just to let it slide.
It's tolerance for L, G, B, and T. Nobody's forcing anyone to sleep with anyone. If some lesbians do want to accept transwomen, why can't they? If others don't want to, of course they don't have to.
See? I have answered. You just don't like my answer.*

Then maybe you should be talking with TransPride in Leeds and not us here in Mumsnet?

It is TransPride in Leeds who disagree with your statement above since they do not tolerate those lesbians who assert their sexuality and their boundaries.

Earlywalker · 07/08/2019 17:58

So that's the question. Can lesbians reject transwomen on the basis of their sex. And their sex alone.

Yes of course they can, I’ve said that already. Lesbians can reject transwoman as a class because they don’t want to sleep with them and that’s fine.

RosesAndRaindrops · 07/08/2019 17:59

And I've repeatedly said that too.

Wishihad · 07/08/2019 17:59

It's the personal, the insinuating and twisting to doubt yourself. Which there is plenty of.
Which also happened to the protesters

You have dont it too. Claiming they were protesting against trans people. Twisting what they were doing.

Datun · 07/08/2019 18:01

Yes of course they can, I’ve said that already. Lesbians can reject transwoman as a class because they don’t want to sleep with them and that’s fine.

On the basis of their sex? Because sexual orientation is based on biological sex.

RedDogsBeg · 07/08/2019 18:02

It's been repeatedly pointed out to both you RosesAndRaindrops and EarlyWalker that men cannot be lesbians and that women who have sex with men are not lesbians, that is the crux of the issue.

Yet again RosesAndRaindrops a protest for the legal rights of one group to be upheld is not a protest against another group.

Those shouting at and crowding around the lesbian protesters were hardly being tolerant of them were they?

The mantra when trans rights are under attack we fight back was chanted, perhaps you could enlighten us all as to what trans rights were under attack by the lesbian protesters?

JackyHolyoake · 07/08/2019 18:04

So that's the question. Can lesbians reject transwomen on the basis of their sex. And their sex alone.

Yes of course they can, I’ve said that already. Lesbians can reject transwoman as a class because they don’t want to sleep with them and that’s fine.

Then maybe you too should be talking with TransPride in Leeds instead of us women here in Mumsnet?

TransPride disagrees with you .. so perhaps get in there and persuade them otherwise.

Let us know of any progress you make.

RosesAndRaindrops · 07/08/2019 18:04

Claiming they were protesting against trans people. Twisting what they were doing.

OK, when some people clearly do accept transwomen as women, and they go there to basically say no you're not, lesbians don't have penises what is it then? As they're welcome there too.
It's tolerance for all at Pride.
Why not let them be there, minding their own, and lesbians celebrate themselves too?
Live and let live, it's celebrating everybody.

RosesAndRaindrops · 07/08/2019 18:05

Top sentence should be bolded as was quoting

merrymouse · 07/08/2019 18:09

If everyone had a live and let live attitude towards these lesbians who exclude dating partners on the basis of biological sex, then nobody would have objected to their banner or t-shirts; and it would be completely unremarkable to say that trans women aren't women or that 'woman' just means adult human female in the same way that 'ewe' means female sheep.

It also seems very strange to talk about 'trans' pride, if the basis of your ideology is that sex doesn't really exist, which can only lead to the conclusion that trans people don't exist either. It just doesn't make any sense.

Earlywalker · 07/08/2019 18:10

On the basis of their sex? Because sexual orientation is based on biological sex

Yes datun how many more times would you like me to say it? Would you like me to paint you a diagram?

Lesbians can reject transwoman on the basis of their sex in the same way they can reject anyone they like on any basis they like because it’s no one else’s business who woman want to sleep with.

Lesbians can also accept transwoman if they wish. Because again who the hell is anyone to tell a woman what they can or can’t do to be a good little lesbian?

Stop policing what woman can and can’t do. It makes you just as much a misogynist as you’re fighting against.

JackyHolyoake · 07/08/2019 18:11

OK, when some people clearly do accept transwomen as women, and they go there to basically say no you're not, lesbians don't have penises what is it then? As they're welcome there too.
It's tolerance for all at Pride.
Why not let them be there, minding their own, and lesbians celebrate themselves too?
and let live, it's celebrating everybody.

It is TransPride in Leeds you need to talk with about your statement there, not us women here in Mumsnet.

It is TransPride in Leeds who does not celebrate everybody ... as evidenced in Saturday 04 August 2019 in Leeds.

RosesAndRaindrops · 07/08/2019 18:13

Lesbians can reject transwoman on the basis of their sex in the same way they can reject anyone they like on any basis they like because it’s no one else’s business who woman want to sleep with. Lesbians can also accept transwoman if they wish. Because again who the hell is anyone to tell a woman what they can or can’t do to be a good little lesbian? Stop policing what woman can and can’t do. It makes you just as much a misogynist as you’re fighting against

Well said

Datun · 07/08/2019 18:13

Lesbians can also accept transwoman if they wish

Oh ok. It's about the category lesbian. You want it to extend to men.

RedDogsBeg · 07/08/2019 18:16

Well lesbians don't have penises do they? Lesbians are of the sex class female, the female sex class is non penis owning.

Tolerance and live and let live for all at Pride? Yes to fetishists and dodgy men with connections to paedophiles and paedophile organisations leading the parade, but tolerant and live and let live to lesbians defining themselves as per the legal definition of lesbian and asserting and celebrating that definition and their boundaries in the light of that definition, oh no, they are not welcome at all.

Earlywalker · 07/08/2019 18:17

Oh ok. It's about the category lesbian. You want it to extend to men.

Are you ok? You appear to have ignored most of my post. You’re so keen to label everything within an inch of its life and it’s so damaging. Being obsessed with people fitting into perfect little boxes is exactly how the whole ‘TWAW’ Thing came about to begin with. I’m not entertaining it.

Wishihad · 07/08/2019 18:17

OK, when some people clearly do accept transwomen as women, and they go there to basically say no you're not, lesbians don't have penises what is it then? As they're welcome there too.

Its factual. If you have a penis you arent a lesbian. If you sleep with people who have a penis you arent a lesbian. And pretending tou ca be a lesbian, is eroding lesbians rights.

Pride is the correct place for this protest. It's what pride is about.

You outlined you felt bullied, lone voice, small group battling against people twisting you words, intentions and getting personal.

When pointed out that, that's exactly what happened to protesters, you then say that's not bullying because it's at pride and trans people were there. Well this board is mainly GC. So again you are in the same position as the protestors. Except, no one has tried to get MN to ban you, like there was attempts to get the protestors removed.

You have twisted their protest and keep claiming it was against trans people. You and the TRAs at the protest are doing exactly what you are calling bullying behaviour. The TRAs went further and tried to have them removed. From pride, for stating that a man can not be a lesibian and for worrying about lesbian rights.

It's so hypocritical

JackyHolyoake · 07/08/2019 18:19

Lesbians can also accept transwoman if they wish. Because again who the hell is anyone to tell a woman what they can or can’t do to be a good little lesbian?

Any such person is bisexual and not a lesbian.

How is it you cannot grasp this?

Yet again [sighs tediously] UK Equality Act 2010 [Explanatory Notes]

Section 12: Sexual orientation

Effect

55.This section defines the protected characteristic of sexual orientation as being a person’s sexual orientation towards:

people of the same sex as him or her (in other words the person is a gay man or a lesbian)

people of the opposite sex from him or her (the person is heterosexual)

people of both sexes (the person is bisexual).

It also explains that references to people sharing a sexual orientation mean that they are of the same sexual orientation.

Background

57.The definition is designed to replicate the effect of similar provisions in the Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2003 and the Equality Act 2006.

Examples

A man who experiences sexual attraction towards both men and women is “bisexual” in terms of sexual orientation even if he has only had relationships with women. [and vice versa]

A man and a woman who are both attracted only to people of the opposite sex from them share a sexual orientation.

A man who is attracted only to other men is a gay man. A woman who is attracted only to other women is a lesbian. So a gay man and a lesbian share a sexual orientation.

Datun · 07/08/2019 18:19

Are you ok? You appear to have ignored most of my post.

It's called identifying the salient points.

That is what you meant, is it? That you want to extend the category lesbians to include men?

RedDogsBeg · 07/08/2019 18:19

That's it in a nutshell Datun, men must be included in that category that applies to females who have a same sex attraction to other females otherwise it's just not fair.

The fact that they can see nothing wrong with this is mind blowing.

Wishihad · 07/08/2019 18:20

Lesbians can also accept transwoman if they wish. Because again who the hell is anyone to tell a woman what they can or can’t do to be a good little lesbian?

Yes they can. But they are not lesbians.

Like a vegan who eats eggs, isnt a vegan anymore. Doesnt matter how many years they were actually vegan, if they eat eggs they are vegan. If they are open to eating eggs, they arent vegan.

The legal definition of lesbian matters.

Why can't they create a new word if bi sexual is so offensive. What so sexual about the word lesbian that men and women, who sleep with men want it?

merrymouse · 07/08/2019 18:21

It's tolerance for all at Pride.

If Pride is about tolerance for all, and not about gay rights, then what is the point of Pride? A marketing opportunity? Is dissent not allowed in an event that was founded as a protest? Why aren't the lesbians being tolerated? What is so offensive about saying that somebody isn't a lesbian anyway? Why is so much affirmation needed?

Wishihad · 07/08/2019 18:22

Stop policing what woman can and can’t do. It makes you just as much a misogynist as you’re fighting against.

No one is policing what they can do.

But they are saying that they dont fir the definition of a lesbuan anymore.

The definition of lesbian, as a word, is important.

Earlywalker · 07/08/2019 18:23

If a lesbian wants to sleep with a transwoman, or a transwoman wants to sleep with lesbians and both are happy and wish to identify as lesbians, I can’t think of a single reason why this harms anybody.

Transwoman existing and being called lesbian does not remove the equality act or change it in anyway. Lesbians still have rights to not be discriminated against, as do gay men and transsexuals. As do ‘perceived’ Lesbians, gay men and transsexuals.

To suggest transwoman being able to be classed as lesbians, somehow puts ‘real’ lesbians at risk, is scaremongering with no real basis.