Isn't Helen Webberley still prevented from providing services in UK?

[LoveGrowsWhere]

Because she's being quoted as an expert in this article.
inews.co.uk/news/puberty-blockers-transgender-rights-nhs-gender-clinic-uk-tavistock/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

How far down the rabbit hole do you have to be to NOT think "shit, these doctors are not legit, what might I be doing to my child?" when that sort of news breaks?

The Webberley's have been & continue to be feted and supported by many prominent trans rights activists, organisations, charities & medical practitioners from overseas who are regarded as being 'the experts'.

The narrative has been constructed that UK is lagging behind North America/Australia.
Confirmation bias is very powerful.

this parent ranted about the GMC and anyone who had reported the Webberleys.

One was a psychiatric nurse responsible for the care of a young female patient.
NHS had declined to prescribe.
Mike Webberley went ahead.
The psychiatric nurse reported in the context of Duty of Care to the patient.

(this information was provided by the Webberleys' PR person at the time of Dr Mike Webberley's suspension)

Like I said, the suspension made no difference to existing patients and for new patients it just means self funding the prescription costs via an online mail order chemist that Webberley either co owns or gets kick backs from. Some GPs will find blood tests as a form of ‘harm reduction’ but others want nothing to do with any of it and patients either collect their own blood through a finger prick kit or go to one of the few drop in sexual health clinics that offer blood testing for LGBT people.

I’m pretty sure the business operation if the Webberleys is illegal, but no one knows whose jurisdiction it is. The GMC obviously can’t do anything and maybe the Spanish police of GMC equivalent are less bothered because the people taking the meds aren’t in Spain?

The internet has created all kinds of situations that the law is yet to catch up with. I suspect this is one of those things. Like, if Webberley was importing or exporting testosterone, that would be criminal, but because they are partnered with a chemist who presumably has the correct license it's a loophole.

That is pretty far down the rabbit hole, Berg - let’s hope your ex friend’s child is better at handling exogenous testosterone than our recent visitor!

IIRC one of the complainees was from a rival gender business!

All of the cases which made up the basis for Dr Mike Webberley's suspension were young females.

Gender Gp were also involved with the treatment of a young female who tragically died by suicide.

Last year the parents were calling for a second inquest/inquiry.

OP EweSurname wrote Sun 30-Jun-19 :

"Patient of webberlys commits suicide
Mum's fury after transgender suicide teen sold hormones from illegal online clinic

A Cambridgeshire mum is calling for a new inquest to question doctors who were found to be offering unregulated hormone treatments online

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/transgender-treatment-nhs-webberley-jayden-16504026

A heartbroken Cambridgeshire mum of a transgender teenager who took his own life is calling for a second inquest after finding out he had hormone treatment from unregulated online doctors.

Jayden Lowe, 18, paid £30 a month for private therapy after facing a six-year wait with the NHS, his inquest heard.

Married doctors Mike and Helen Webberley have both received an interim suspension by the British Medical Council pending an investigation, after they set up their unregulated gender treatment service.

Jayden received hormone treatment in the post for "a few months" before he stepped in front of a train on September 28, 2018."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3625515-Patient-of-webberlys-commits-suicide

Still kind of agog at this thread. I mean, of all the threads to bump and have a narc meltdown on, this one? This is why feminists have actually made inroads in the past few months. Despite a few wily people, TRAs seem to have a bizarre need to champion the very worst aspects of their religion's practice, thereby sawing off the branch they're sitting in. It's so odd.

Indeed Floral, quite something to take issue with quoting the key findings of such an important paper by Professor Carl Heneghan (lead Oxford University Evidence Based Medicine) published in the BMJ.

BMJ "a weekly peer-reviewed medical journal. It is one of the world's oldest general medical journals. Originally called the British Medical Journal"

Summary of circumstances surrounding Jayden Lowe's death at 18 years old:

LangCleg wrote, Sun 30-Jun-19
"So, let me get this right.

A child who had been unpopular and bullied, who had Asperger's, was same sex oriented and was self-harming joined a school Pride club run by a transgender teacher and became persuaded that all their unhappiness was due to their "gender identity".

The Tavistock sent them a leaflet telling them to expect to be suicidal.

They got powerful drugs from an unlicensed clinic which addressed none of the underlying issues of a spectrum diagnosis, burgeoning sexuality, or self harm.

And the outcome was tragic.

This is absolutely horrendous. My heart goes out to the parents."

Also from BMJ

Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490

Loving the name change Floral

The genuinely sad thing about this whole thread is that i just wanted to put a different point of view forward to you. There was no need to be so defensive and twist my words to try and argue and invalidate my experiences as a trans person.

You are still assuming that you are correct on 100% of everything but you are not.

An example of this is that (as I have said before) Gendergp has and still offers shared care agreements with NHS doctors. My Testosterone and hormone blockers are provided by the NHS on an NHS prescription (not private private prescription) with the guidance from the team of specialists at Gender GP who monitor my hormone levels and ask my NHS GP to adjust my levels accordingly. I have not had just one counselling session - it is a continual process and I have to have them regularly throughout my treatment.

You have accused me of lying and giving you false information but there is not one lie in anything I have written on here. What started as me providing a (very civil) different point of view to you all turned in to an attack on me with your constant attempts at Flaming.

Your views and ethical stances seem at best very questionable and very contradictory and as a result, your cruel and unkind words will one day have tragic consequences and you will have to then try and justify your actions. You are using feminism to hide behind and justify your bullying behaviour and when called out on this you continue push and continue to attempt to flame .

I am a real person with real feelings and this is something you need to realise and try and comprehend. I am not merely words behind a computer screen - I am a living person. Your words have been full of hate and spite and I am genuinely surprised that you were not able to accept anything I told you as being true. Not everyone wants to start an argument with you - I can promise you that was not my intention. I just wanted to show you that not everything you read in the media is true. You are entitled to your opinion on Gendergp as am I. My opinion is based on mine and my friends first hand experience as trans people.

No-one is perfect and I’m sure that if we were in a room all together we would have a less hateful discussion because the internet has a way of breaking down all barriers and compassion between people.

I let myself down by retaliating against your unkind words and flaming attempts. I am genuinely sorry if my words upset you and had a negative impact on your feelings.

I hope you will at some point reflect on this thread and feel some regret that you have spoken to a fellow human in such a nasty manner, but most of all I hope that you will begin to realise that there is a living human behind the words on the internet and your words whether good or bad will have some kind of impact on that persons life.

CW

Nobody forced you to come here and tell us off so. Perhaps if you don’t like the robust yet polite way we engage on this forum it’s not the one for you. It seems to me that you fundamentally misunderstand/have intentionally misinterpreted what has been said to you - our concern, as ever, is for the children caught up in all of this mess. You threaten tragic consequences but following the links above regarding poor Jayden I’m surprised you have the fucking nerve to talk about consequences at all in this situation tbh.

I am genuinely sorry if my words upset you and had a negative impact on your feelings.

They didn't upset me at all. It's only what I've become used to from gender ideologists. They were simply a window onto the type of person you are.

Cw19752 My concern is for the Safeguarding of children & Vulnerable Adults.

I wasn't at all upset that you 'flamed' my linking an important paper published in the BMJ by Professor Carl Henghan (Oxford Evidence Based Medicine) which concluded:

Treatments for under 18 gender dysphoric children and adolescents remain largely experimental. There are a large number of unanswered questions that include the age at start, reversibility; adverse events, long term effects on mental health, quality of life, bone mineral density, osteoporosis in later life and cognition. We wonder whether off label use is appropriate and justified for drugs such as spironolactone which can cause substantial harms, including death. We are also ignorant of the long-term safety profiles of the different GAH regimens. The current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice."

I thought your reaction incredulous & concerning.

Cw, I mean, that's ridiculous. You got some rude responses, but I was an absolute pussycat despite you pushing quite dangerous misinformation. Shit, I even challenged another regular. Apparently that was hateful to you. Jesus.

Scapaflo, subtle, but I'm glad you noticed

You are entitled to your opinion on Gendergp as am I. My opinion is based on mine and my friends first hand experience as trans people.

Children & Vulnerable Adults who have paid to be treated by the online (unregulated) business GenderGP have not been Safeguarded.
Both Helen & Mike Webberley are suspended by the GMC.

The majority of reports about their practice came from senior professionals who have specialised in treatment of patients identified as transgender.

There are 'matters of public record' here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3598778-Dr-Helen-and-Dr-Mike-Webberley-matters-of-public-record

Disagreement is not hateful.

It's what adults do - disagree, put forward their reasons why. Then you do the same.

You appear to be having a temper tantrum because people on the internet disagree with you. That must be exhausting for you.

An example of this is that (as I have said before) Gendergp has and still offers shared care agreements with NHS doctors. My Testosterone and hormone blockers are provided by the NHS on an NHS prescription (not private private prescription) with the guidance from the team of specialists at Gender GP who monitor my hormone levels and ask my NHS GP to adjust my levels accordingly.

Your GP should not be doing this.
They should be made aware of the matters of public record about Drs Helen & Mike Webberley & their unregulated online business, 'GenderGP' ASAP.

Cw19752
There are a great number of false allegations against women who've responded to you.
It seems very likely many of these may be projections.

I wonder what preconceived ideas you had about MN FWR before you posted & whether you are aware of how powerful confirmation bias can be?

"Bitching, whining, mean girls, vile, hateful, bints, full of spite".

But we're the one's doing the flaming??

Cw, this isn't about you. Every point you made has been refuted and backed up with evidence. Calmly and rationally. Women here have trans people in their lives, many of them are doctors themselves, scientists and endocrinologists. And they have been studying this for years. They are exceptionally knowledgeable about all the different issues. And the very many people who are involved with them, whether legitimately or not.

You are coming from a position where you want the drugs that Webberley sells.

It's probably not the best debate that you should be having. Victim blaming Keira Bell and defending a criminal, suspended doctor, is very poor show.

As is threatening consequences.

It's so predictable.

Disagreement isn't hate.

I assume it came from the book The Chimp Paradox

EverardDigby I tend to make the same connection.

I think Steve Peter's work can be very useful for everyone. Especially when they react strongly driven by core emotions in ways they might prefer not to.

Its a very accessible model.

explained by Sir Chris Hoy

The BMJ (British Medical Journal as was) is not 'the internet'.

The judiciary who rule on the law of the land is (are?) not 'the internet'.