Trans-man who gave birth is a Guardian Journalist

[maeb]

Transgender man who gave birth loses high court privacy ruling

Why am I not surprised?

A lesbian or gay couple who have a child will presumably be open with the child about how they conceived. That one of them is not their biological parent etc Everything is still factual and out there, no one has to say anything that isn't true.

Not always. I know a lesbian couple who are dead set that their kids have no father. I don't know how they will make this fly as they get older, the eldest now is eight I think. But they are very serious about it and almost seem to believe it is true.

They do realise that their child will work it out don’t they?

And people bang on about not telling kids about Santa, Easter bunny or god ‘because it’s lying’. 🙄

I would think so.

I guess they will tell them that it doesn't matter? It seems like that is the root of it, they think it totally doesn't matter.

What is the point of birth certificates anymore? If they don’t record the parents names and even the sex can be changed at a later date, why not just keep a five bar gate to count the number of kids born that day? The rest of the data appears to be entirely a matter for dispute.

Don’t know if this will work:

So half sister acts as surrogate for her half brother and his husband/partner. She won’t be mum but special aunt. Because adoption is too expensive (I assume from abroad?). So more lies to a child then. But then the truth would be bloody confusing anyway.

apple.news/A0t6fblgeQ7CmuHo34jVqMg

Woman gives birth to her brother's baby - because adoption is too expensive - Mirror Online

How did Freddy intent to explain to their child that they had no mother?

LassOfFyvie responding to underthebridgedowntown

I'm donor conceived, but my dad (as in the man who brought me up) is named as my father on my birth certificate. Don't know if legislation is any different now, but it's not made a difference that it isn't biologically accurate

If your parents were married there was always an automatic assumption the man your mother was married to goes on the bc. That still applies- the husband of a married surrogate is still the default father.

If your parents weren't, your mother's partner could simply have gone along with your mother to register the birth - same as any unmarried father.

There are other permutations, including 2 mothers , one of whom will have no genetic connection to the child.

Doesn’t this tend to give the lie to any suggestion that birth certificates are a record of the (biological) truth?

Freddie will gaslight the child into believing that men can give birth.

My son is autistic and never believed in Santa/Father Christmas, in fact he was stressed to the eyeballs that some weird man would creep into his room and leave him presents. So Christmas became in our household a time to leave each other gifts under the tree. As for the tooth fairy!

The legal case is a political initiative, it seems to me.

The GRA 2004 is explicit that, where a parent transitions after becoming a parent and obtains a GRC, no child of that parent's Birth Certificate can be changed. That is, if it is the Father who transitions, the father cannot change his status to Mother and vice versa.

This case is about where the parent transitions and obtains a GRC before becoming a parent.

This raises the question of the validity of the granting of the GRC.

It also raises the question of whose needs are paramount here: is it that of the child needing to know who is its Mother; or is it the needs of the adult who obtained a GRC to achieve legal male status?

[Personally, I would like to see the GRC rescinded in this case, since it was obtained in breach of the current requirements [see 2.1a and 2.1c]:

2 Determination of applications
(1) In the case of an application under section 1(1)(a), the Panel must grant the application if satisfied that the applicant—
(a) has or has had gender dysphoria,
(b) has lived in the acquired gender throughout the period of two years ending with the date on which the application is made,
(c) intends to continue to live in the acquired gender until death, and
(d) complies with the requirements imposed by and under section 3.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/2

@JackyHolyoake
Indeed, definitely in breach of 2.1.c. How to reconcile the intention to live permanently as a man with getting pregnant?

I asked a trans friend for their view on this, reproduced with permission.

'Being pregnant is something that women do. I am a man and so there is no way I would want to go through the whole pregnancy and childbirth thing. Expecting to be then put down as the father is quite frankly ridiculous. He/She/They need to decide what they are and stick to it rather than wanting to have their cake and eat it.'

Seems reasonable to me.

Indeed, definitely in breach of 2.1.c. How to reconcile the intention to live permanently as a man with getting pregnant?

And how can "gender dysphoria" be a relevant factor if a female is content to use her female reproductive system to achieve what it is intended to achieve?

Doesn’t this tend to give the lie to any suggestion that birth certificates are a record of the (biological) truth?

. The starting point is pater est quem nuptiae demonstrant. but they could not ever be 100% the truth. The principle can be displaced if there is evidence it is not true.

In many cases, (probably by far the majority ?) bcs would until recently be more accurate than not as to biological parents.

The water is muddied now by AID, egg donation, and surrogacy. In the case of lesbian couples there can't be 2 biological mothers and no biological father but legally there can be.

One argument could be that, as a ‘man living in a woman’s body’ and wishing to be a parent, although he would have much preferred to have used his sperm to fertilise an egg, he took the pragmatic decision to use the reproductive organs nature had given him.

I still think he should be shown as mother though, although I’m now slightly struggling with the logical basis for that view.

This person thinks that "mother" means floral pinny and ladybrain. If you are gender non conforming, then mother is not an apt title.
What a mockery this person is claiming the women's movement is.

One argument could be that, as a ‘man living in a woman’s body’

Except that there is no material basis in reality for such a statement.

Lass

So there may well be enough legal mud for this one to wallow very happily.

This goes back to the absurdity of claiming they are born in the wrong body and either claiming the penis is female (then their body is not wrong) or getting pregnant (so using their body for its intended, female, purpose). I sure hope the court thrown out this case, although I do not seem to see any section relevant for fraudulent or untrue declarations in order to obtain a GRC. It seems there was a desire to make a test case for allowing transmen to register as fathers even when giving birth.

It seems there was a desire to make a test case for allowing transmen to register as fathers even when giving birth.

Exactly so ... but there is also the issue of the fact that a GRC was granted to this person to which are attached strict conditions.

Jacky

I agree. But there exists a “legal fiction” (I think that’s the term) that this person is a man. It seems that birth certificates also contain legal fictions (married lesbians, sperm donors). So calling this person father doesn’t seem a big stretch does it? I don’t like it, but it seems all the required conditions are in place.

I wonder if they had their full maternity leave from work.........

Prior to attending a fertility clinic he applied for a gender recognition certificate, which was granted before he gave birth. This meant he was legally male when his child was born.

The whole thing is completely nuts. Poor kid. It doesn't deserve this.

But there exists a “legal fiction” (I think that’s the term) that this person is a man. It seems that birth certificates also contain legal fictions (married lesbians, sperm donors). So calling this person father doesn’t seem a big stretch does it? I don’t like it, but it seems all the required conditions are in place.

I think the difference here may be that married lesbians do not deny they are both female; neither does a sperm donor deny he is male.

In this case we have a woman who is aiming to use her GRC to have her Legal Fiction status as a "man" recorded on her child's Birth Certificate changed.

This is a completely different issue.