Peak Transing

[Apollo440]

This thread on AIBU has been joined by some aggressive TRAs who are doing sterling work peak transing the more delicate areas of mumsnet.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3634784-to-not-want-to-sign-off-my-emails-with-preferred-pronouns

Real TWAW No debate or your c*nts type. Carry on I say!

So, it is still women saying No. No to men in women's spaces.

Good!

Thanks, all you GC women!

It's an odd situation when someone claiming earnestly to be concerned about tone decides to act in such a goady way by appropriating the name that other posters use to highlight blatant trolling to each other in an effort to make conversations more productive.

Speaking from experience, there's few things some people won't appropriate.

Ok, so if cubicles are provided in shop changing rooms, why does a man who sees himself as a transwoman need to be in the female facilities?

He can have a nice private cubicle in the male changing rooms, right?

What if its an open space changing area, youre the only person in there then several male bodied people come in (in female clothing)
I've genuinely never seen that though (note not saying doesn't exist though)
I've got to be in my 40s and never seen that.
Never had an open space changing area and a few male people come in all at the same time.
Even if they did, why are they automatically a threat?

Ok, so if cubicles are provided in shop changing rooms, why does a man who sees himself as a transwoman need to be in the female facilities?
Because there's more to being a woman than what's just between your legs or underneath your tshirt?
There is to me anyway.

Because there's more to being a woman than what's just between your legs or underneath your tshirt?

Could you elaborate on that point?

Could you elaborate on that point?

I already have, repeatedly.
If it's not on this thread it is on the one linked to in the OP.

Roses, I'm not sure where you live or where you shop, but today in the Top Shop is was in, your 'enclosed cublicle' is a laugh!

Because there's more to being a woman than what's just between your legs or underneath your tshirt?
There is to me anyway
Are we back to 'feelz' like Travis. As long as you 'feel like a woman' that's enough?

To Purple's point:
Ok, so if cubicles are provided in shop changing rooms, why does a man who sees himself as a transwoman need to be in the female facilities? To my earlier question, Roses, why do we have any sex-segregated spaces? Are you against any sex-segreated spaces?

He can have a nice private cubicle in the male changing rooms, right?

What person, knowing that some women have expressed concern about male-bodied people in their changing room, would charge on forward and demand access into the women's changing rooms, if all cublicles are private? Validation? Aggressive take-over?

What person, knowing that some women have expressed concern about male-bodied people in their changing room, would charge on forward and demand access into the women's changing rooms, if all cublicles are private?
You've just said that all cubicles are private though?
If they are, why does it matter?

It is quite simple:

It is still women saying No. No to men in women's spaces.

Any argument with this?

I'm interested in the whole 'more to being a woman' thing.

So men wanting to use female spaces ARE women if they say they are?

To me, being a woman is based on my biology, yes. There's much more to me as a person than what is between my legs or underneath my tshirt. But none of it has anything to do with me being a woman.

But what is between my legs and underneath my tshirt is what makes me a woman. Not my personality or how I 'feel' inside.

@RosesAndRaindrops re the open space changing area, im thinking of my gym changing area. Its just open with benches and lockers. Same with other gyms ive been to. Thts fine as its all female, i have no problem getting changed around women. My concern is, if this ideology of trans women are women is followed through to its logical conclusion, and therefore trans women are permitted in the female changing rooms, the hypothetical situation of being a lone uterus haver in a room of penis havers suddenly can become reality.

As to why a group together, i dont know maybe its a group of friends going for a swim. Who knows. As to why being a naked biological female alone with a number of naked biological men feels threatening?? Seriously you are asking this??

OK. I'm now feeling the need to go clothes shopping next week to put this all to the test whether I'm flopping my bits out in front of everyone or whether I'm in a cubicle.
(Sunday tomorrow, hopefully thread won't be closed by Monday)

Never had an open space changing area and a few male people come in all at the same time.
Even if they did, why are they automatically a threat?

So you just want any men to have access to female spaces?

Ok, so if cubicles are provided in shop changing rooms, why does a man who sees himself as a transwoman need to be in the female facilities?
Because he's a transwoman?

So you just want any men to have access to female spaces?
No, I've never said that. In fact I've said total self ID is a bad idea

I'm struggling to understand what you're saying here, Roses.

Are you saying you don't think female spaces are necessary in the first place, or are you saying that you think men who want to access them can be women if they say they are?

(I get that you, personally, aren't bothered about preserving female spaces on your own account because you are very relaxed about wang presence).

Most women and girls want women-only facilities. For safeguarding purposes, and dignity and wellbeing. Such facts are well referenced already on this thread.

Why are there still people fighting to oppose women's boundaries and consent?

Swimming pools, gyms/fitness facilities I attend all have had common open changing areas. Maybe with a handful of cubicles but hardly enough to handle everyone wanting to change in privacy. And I have gone to a lot of pools and fitness facilities in my 40 years due to athletics and my own personal interest in fitness.

The only gym I have gone to without common changing areas is my 24 hour gym that has unisex washrooms with showers that open off the main area. Each is a totally self enclosed unit (one toilet, one sink, one shower). The gym is not staffed at all hours so they still provide emergency lanyards (aka panic buttons) for those there in off hours who may feel concerned about their safety.

are you saying that you think men who want to access them can be women if they say they are?
I've said just self ID isn't a good idea so no I don't think that.

Are you saying you don't think female spaces are necessary in the first place
No, never said that either. Only that there's a lot more to being female than what;s between my legs so not about to dismiss others.

Why do people always mention cubicle doors like they solve anything?? They don’t. Men who assault children in the Ladies usually do so in a locked cubicle.

Here is the solution:

1. Female space (to include small boys with their mums). The old school transsexuals who say they have used these spaces for 20 years would keep doing so (since they apparently blend right in, nobody would even know).

1. Gender neutral space - everyone else, including all the self-described “cis” women who want to share with their trans and NB siblings. TW like Danielle and JY would go here. Everyone is valid, no more angst. Mums with older boys would probably go here too.

Any objections?

Roses

I used to be in the military. I was housed often with men in tents only separated by a curtain at best, more often with nothing. Where we changed and slept and all of that next to each other. I slept in holes in the ground next to men I barely knew. I also competed in sports like wrestling when there were few women or women’s facilities for me. Where I might be changing amongst men and even competing against them.

And I still fail to see why my experience with that means all girls and women should have to accept men in their spaces, or, if you are so adamant that there are self enclosed cubicles anyway, why transwomen can’t just use those in the men’s spaces.

I don’t think any girl or women should be expected to accept wangs in their spaces, just because some like you are so focused on being the cool girl you fail to see how women have been frozen out of their sports, toilets, scholarships, and on and on.

Roses mate, you are making NO sense.

If there's a bloke who wants to use women's facilities - despite the objections of women, which are very well attested - how should he demonstrate that he's a woman & we should all STFU & let him in?

You've said what's between his legs isn't relevant - you don't mind his hairy wang. But then you've said not just his saying he's a woman.

What do you need him to do or say to override women's objections to men in their spaces?

Cubicle doors here (in Canada) are also crap. You can easily see through the gaps on the sides as well as under the door. The only reason one does not see what is going on beyond them is because they are actively trying to look.