Peak Transing

[Apollo440]

This thread on AIBU has been joined by some aggressive TRAs who are doing sterling work peak transing the more delicate areas of mumsnet.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3634784-to-not-want-to-sign-off-my-emails-with-preferred-pronouns

Real TWAW No debate or your c*nts type. Carry on I say!

The thing is it's not a fair comparison, is it.

Homosexuality:

"I'm a woman who loves another woman. Can I please have the same rights as straight people and live my life free from abuse?"

vs

Transactivism:

"I'm literally you so have to give me all your stuff or I'll kill you"

In the second case the thing that people are objecting to is very much more extreme and massively infringes on everyone else's rights. The gay/ lesbian civil rights movement hurt no one and removed no one else's rights.

Peak trans, as I understand it, is about transactivism not trans people. "Peak gay" in your version would, I assume, be about gay people. The true equivalent might be "peak Pride month" or something.

vs Transactivism: "I'm literally you so have to give me all your stuff or I'll kill you"
Who's saying that, though? Some extreme nutjobs (for want of a better word!) on Twitter?
Doesn't mean all transwomen are that way or should be feared!

Doesn't mean all transwomen are that way or should be feared!

No, absolutely not, I fully agree. But the nutjobs on Twitter aren't just basement dwelling MRAs - a scary number of them are in positions of power. They're politicians, journalists, celebrities, and lobbiests receiving millions in funding. This isn't a grassroots movement, and the people we're campaigning against are not your nice, grounded in reality, just trying to live quietly, trans friends. In fact, most of us believe transactivism hurts them as much as it hurts women. But they aren't the one's changing laws and shaping public policy - that's the nutters on Twitter.

No, absolutely not, I fully agree. But the nutjobs on Twitter aren't just basement dwelling MRAs - a scary number of them are in positions of power. They're politicians, journalists, celebrities, and lobbiests receiving millions in funding
So what are the politicians and journalists doing then? As I don't see anything wrong with trans charities receiving funding if that's what you mean?

So what are the politicians and journalists doing then?

Well, Politicians are changing laws that effect women without consulting women, and they're doing it under pressure from high paid lobby groups, many of whom have people working for them who seem to genuinely hate women. In Scotland the government is the biggest funder of these groups ffs, it's literally paying to lobby itself. So we end up with women being assaulted in prison because politicians outsourced prison policy to lobby groups who didn't bother to do an impact assessment for women. We have rape crisis centers having funding withheld if they exercise their legal right to use the GRA single sex exemption clause. We have school guidance being distributed saying that girls who are uncomfortable with non biological females in their changing rooms should themselves be excluded from those spaces, and that teachers should report parents who don't support their children transitioning to the authorities. We have people like Edward Lord running biased consultations designed to reach predetermined conclusions, and then binning any responses that don't agree with him. We have Stephen Whittle helping to shape girl guiding policy who sees nothing wrong with boys who identify as girls sharing sleeping areas with girls without parental consent, because he think GG leaders should just carry condoms and be ready to offer the girls emergency contraception. And for the majority of the papers we have at best a media blackout on these issues, and worst a concerted gaslighting campaign to make us think it's all hunk dory. It's sinister, it's authoritarian, and it's getting worse. This is not like other civil rights movements, it's gone wrong somehow, and a lot of people are scared by it.

I see plenty wrong with Mermaids and their ilk receiving funding and teaching gender bollox in schools. It sexist stereotyping of the worst sort and homophobic too. Telling children that they might have been born in the wrong body and surgery, puberty blockers and cross sex hormones can fix them is beyond evil. Be a girl with short hair that likes climbing trees or a boy that likes dresses and dolls. Gender stereotypes need tearing down not reinforcing.

Doesn't mean all transwomen are that way or should be feared!

No, but transactivism isn't about nice, decent transwomen who just want to live their lives, it's about people like the subject of this thread (a male-bodied person who has self-declared himself to be a woman and taken a bunch of women to court because they refused to wax his balls).

I see plenty wrong with Mermaids and their ilk receiving funding and teaching gender bollox in schools
Why can' kids be taught in an age appropriate way about being trans?
I'm sorry, but that argument makes me think of when it wasn't allowed in schools to teach about gay. Presumably because of fear of catching the gay or something if you learned about it?
You either are or you aren't, doesn't mean knowing that gay or trans exists means you might suddenly decide you want to be one.

There is no equivalence to homosexuality and it is disingenuous to suggest so. No one has a pink or blue brain and you cannot change sex. Trans activism is harmful. You do not need to alter your body or take lifelong harmful drugs to fulfill a gender stereotype.

The thing you have to understand is that it's not just about policy and law, it's also about shifting social attitudes. A woman is a woman no matter what they wear or look like, and if a TW is a woman then that's true for them as well. Why should they make any physical changes if they don't want to? And in anticipation of this we've already seen female toilets targeted with posters instructing them not to challenge anyone they feel is using the wrong toilet. So here's a question.

Imagine you're in a restaurant and you see a young girl go into the female toilets followed closely by someone clearly physically male. Do you:

a) alert the staff/ go to check if the girl is OK.
b) assume that the clearly physically male person is just using the correct facilities for their gender identity, and do nothing.

You either are or you aren't, doesn't mean knowing that trans exists means you might suddenly decide you want to be one.

That's not what detransitioners are saying. A lot of them say they were exploited, groomed, pressured, and gaslit into transitioning and now bitterly regret it.

No one has a pink or blue brain and you cannot change sex
I know you can't biologically change sex, and no there's no such thing as pink and blue brains whatever that means.
You can have a sense of self as a female or male, nothing to do with being pink or blue.

You can have a sense of self as a female or male, nothing to do with being pink or blue

Yes. That's called gender stereotyping. Femininity or masculinity. Both social constructs based on what society deems men and women should present as.

I think this might have been mentioned once or twice?

Yes. That's called gender stereotyping. Femininity or masculinity. Both social constructs based on what society deems men and women should present as
No. That's not what I'm referring to. Nothing to do with what society deems you should present as.
It's just a part of me, as much as my body is, I don't know a technical way how to describe it.

What does a sense of being male or female mean? Can you have a sense of being something you are objectively not?

Can I have a sense of being taller than I actually am? Would that sense of tallness justify being let onto roller coaster rides that I am too short for?

Earlywalker and RosesandRaindrops

In the JY vs SG case that OldCrone linked to above, what do you think would be the fairest judgement the tribunal could make?

You can read all the thread but I've tried to summarise as follows:

JY id's as a trans woman and believes the state should compel SG, a woman who does not believe TWAW, to go to JYs home, and perform personal and intimate services, even if this makes SG uncomfortable, and is against her religious beliefs.

Twitter screen grab from the case attached.

Your thoughts?

My thoughts are that I commented on this thread solely because I think it’s disgusting that you all use the phrase ‘peak trans’. I didn’t come here to debate individuals who may or may not fall under the self ID ‘trans umbrella’ or discuss my view on transgenderism.

So far, nobody has really said why ‘Peak Trans’ is acceptable or what it means, they’ve just avoided the question or swerved round it. So I won’t go off on a tangent about individuals cases.

I always wonder how people who consider themselves trans can actually any sense of being either female or male (depending on which they actually are). As a woman, I have never been a man so I don't know what being a man feels like. How can anyone know that their gender feels are those of the opposite sex? It's completely illogical.

roses I think you're underestimating the insidious nature and influence of gender identification as a social construct. There are literally thousands of tiny influences on our perception of ourselves as women. It's pervasive. You may think that this 'feeling' of womanhood is yours, but it's directly influenced, often subconsciously, by the centuries and layers m of subtle (and often not so subtle) guidelines that instruct us as to what it means to be 'womanly' butvthe fact remains that it is ALL fabricated by our societal mores and the only FACT that truly defines us as women, is our biology. Everything else is subjective.

People would’ve said being gay was ‘illogical’ many years ago.

You do not have gender dysphoria, so you’re right, you don’t know why people feel they are ‘born in the wrong body’. Why can’t you accept that some people, feel differently to you?

If you have an issue with trans people in woman’s spaces then that’s fine, you should fight for what you believe in. But how can it ever be acceptable to fight against what someone else believes they are or their identity in general?

There is such a big difference between "I believe transwomen are women" and "You must agree that tranwomen are women." Unfortunately, the second is the message presented 99% of the time.

But how can it ever be acceptable to fight against what someone else believes they are or their identity in general?

When that personal belief causes risk or harm to others.

There are some adults who identify as babies/toddlers. They wear nappies have nannies/mummies, are breastfed and dress in a stereotypically baby fashion. Does this make them babies? Does this mean they get to join in with babies groups and visit breast feeding cafes? Would you invite them on a play date with your toddler?

Peak-trans is usually the moment when a trans ally / or previously on the fence observer realises that all is not right in the trans community and begins to question their support for trans politics.

People may say they were peak-transed for eg when cases like JY vs women waxers are made more public and they start to read around the subject and become suspicious or critical of transgenderism or of transgender politics.

Early PP have answered your question. And I'd agree with ByGrab for eg where she says

The gay/ lesbian civil rights movement hurt no one and removed no one else's rights.
Peak trans, as I understand it, is about transactivism not trans people. "Peak gay" in your version would, I assume, be about gay people. The true equivalent might be "peak Pride month" or something.

So far, nobody has really said why ‘Peak Trans’ is acceptable or what it means

"Peak trans" is the moment you go from being a trusting supportive ally of trans people to realising that you can't anymore, it's personal to everyone. Everyone has their own peak trans moment.

Usually it's triggered by the aggression and head fuckery that is trans activism, one example might be someone who basically realises the entire ideology is built on lies and they resent being asked to constantly say things that they know aren't true.

In the case of women who "peak trans" it's usually the moment you realise there's simply too much at stake for women and girls, to continue supporting the ideology.

The phrase exists because so many people can identify with having a "peak trans" moment and changing lanes. It's a very real phenomenon.

Unlike "peak gay" or whatever, being gay doesn't hurt anyone else. Going around being Muslim doesn't hurt anyone else. Unlike transactivism which conscientiously sets out to harm women.
You need to own it and stop complaining about throw about phrases like "peak trans", look at what you're bloody well doing.

My thoughts are that I commented on this thread solely because I think it’s disgusting that you all use the phrase ‘peak trans’. I didn’t come here to debate individuals who may or may not fall under the self ID ‘trans umbrella’ or discuss my view on transgenderism

Same, the thread's about peaktrans, and it's absolutely not OK to use peaktrans just like it's not OK to use peakmuslim or whatever.