The impact of hearing trans widows stories?

[TinselAngel]

I know a lot of FWR contributors don't want to comment on the trans widows' threads here, as they are support threads, so I thought it would be useful to have a separate thread to discuss if hearing trans widow's stories has had an impact on your view of late transitioning males and the support (or otherwise) they should revive from their wives? Or on any other gender issues?

I'd be interested to hear your views, and think it might encourage any lurkers who are in this situation to feel able to post on the current trans widows thread.

This is also inspired by Jessica's thread considering whether what we do is worth it!

I think the term trans widow is highly offensive to actual widows.

They haven't died.

*I think the term trans widow is highly offensive to actual widows.

They haven't died*

Lol identity politics right there

That was quicker than normal!

Women in this situation need a name to assemble round. This is the one that we have chosen and we won't be bullied out of using it. It is enabling us to find each other and share our experiences. Some people find this frightening.

We'll carry on using it as long as "Dead name" is in popular usage. (And probably after TBH).

Many actual widows on here, and elsewhere have said they are not offended in the slightest.

Both threads have had a huge impact on me.

Firstly, the clear connections with the patterns of (non transition related) domestic abuse and the techniques of gaslighting, control, etc. How clearly the language of the (non transition related) women's sector can be applied to what has gone on inside your relationships.

Secondly, the rehabilitative power of women's communities. The support you give one another and the lifeline it so clearly represents is awesome to me. It's feminist consciousness raising at its best.

Thirdly, some might criticise because the threads present quite a negative view of spousal transition. But I don't think that's fair because MLM and social media are full of positive spousal transition stories. There are two sides to every coin and one shouldn't be hidden.

no, the actual widows I know don't have their partners because the gone, dead.

Not the same thing at all.

Many of my views about AGP males were already formed but seeing the chaos and devastation it inflicts on families has been an absolute eye-opener.

One effect it's had is that if I ever come across the continually repeated message that we have to "be nice", then I think about what the trans widows are going/have gone through and know that enabling what they report must not happen.

It's a very effective thread for helping people to see past the glittery rainbows of the ideology.

It's one of the most powerful discussions I've seen anywhere about the modern incarnation of transgender.

As an aside, getting as your first response a post trying to police the thread and silence the trans widows is very telling.

We talk about golf widows, football widows without being offended. Trans widows is clear and to the point.

I didn’t read those threads for ages because I felt as though I was intruding on something very private. But I did after you encouraged women to do so on another thread and I have found them hugely moving, shocking and galvanising. Women’s rights are being dismantled is so many ways, but it’s easy to lose sight of the bigger picture as we often fight our own battles at work, with friends, politicians etc... It’s important that we all have a wider picture of how extensive this assault is, not least so that we can show solidarity while tracking its many manifestations and effects.

I think the term trans widow is highly offensive to actual widows.
They haven't died

I have no doubt that the overwhelming sense of pain, loneliness and loss is quite similar to widowhood tbh.

Im not offended. I speak as a widow. Don't be offended on my behalf.

Beaten by two minutes... Also coming to say people talk about football widows and golf widows... Are they taken to task in the same way? Is this just another way to control women.?. If those transitioning are allowed to name themselves then the same should apply to transwidows.

It comes across as one rule for the men and another for the women.

Is this just another way to control women

Indeed I agree with you. Don't let it happen. Keep talking.

Pretty much what Lang said. I'd often wondered what happened to the families of the brave and stunning.

I had been reading the thread for about a year before I saw the documentary which gave a glimpse of Mrs Hayton. My heart fucking broke for her, knowing the other side of the coin.

I would never 'out' the TWidows thread, but I have been using what I've learned to challenge the AGP/late transition narrative with female 'allies'.

'What about the wife and children?' usually causes a bit of bluster then a silence followed by something along the lines of 'I've never thought about that'. The women I talk to are generally wives and mothers, and your stories do have an impact on them - a kind of 'oh shit, this could happen to me and my family'.

KOKO, I stand with you. I have your back.

The man a trans widow married has indeed gone, leaving her shackled to a stranger and doubting the apparent happiness of their previous life. Terrible situation.

I think the term trans widow is highly offensive to actual widows.

They haven't died.

You don’t get to speak for me. I’m a widow. I adored my husband and miss him every single day. My husband also adored me and I held him in my arms as he took his last breath. I find comfort in the love and respect we had for each other.

What those poor trans widows are going through must be devastating to them and I absolutely support them in their terminology of trans widow. My husband and I loved each other, whereas their husbands gaslight, manipulate and bully them. The term Trans widow isn’t actually strong enough to describe their suffering, so anyone who wants to use my ‘widow’ status to berate them can fuck right off.

The Transwidows threads have been a huge eye opener for me, amongst other impacts I am unable to see any transwoman with wife/ex-wife and children as any sort of female ally. The impact on children in particular presents a different view to the message put out in the media by TW that their children suffer no ill affects.

The support and community offered by Transwidows to other Transwidows on that thread is very reminiscent of the support widows traditionally provide to each other which is another reason I think the name is very appropriate (incidentally I've reported kimlo's posts for derailment)

I strongly suspect if my dh declared he was struggling with his identify and wanted to wear women's clothing it would be immediate divorce proceedings as I now have a better insight into the anguish that would be ahead of me attempting to make the relationship work.

TinselAngel needs to be put up for an award

I have read parts of the threads (and stories elsewhere) with interest and yes it's added a whole new level of impact for me.
Yet again it's the women who carry the burden of it. How many trans-widowers are there? Almost none, because when women want to perform the "traditionally masculine" roles in a family they just fucking get on with doing it instead of disrupting their family and making it all about them.

And to get back on point, yes, reading transwidows' stories (even the ones in the media where everything is apparently rosy) is a vital part of understanding the true nature of late transitioning.

I am unable to see any transwoman with wife/ex-wife and children as any sort of female ally
This is such an excellent point @JustAnotherWoman. It's so far from the traditionally feminine behaviour of putting kids first whatever the cost to them personally.

I came across this the other day. Describes what trans widows go through.

www.theguardian.com/society/2012/nov/02/my-husbands-sex-change

I’m so glad you posted this.

I also didn’t go to those threads initially as I didn’t want to intrude. What I read was very eye opening and I too feel that the connections and support you make with one another is very typical of women, without each other we would be isolated and lost. The first time I thought of this was with Kris Jenner ( I don’t watch the shows ) and seeing a clip of her crying and talking about how Bruce was gone and even her daughters wouldn’t let her even say that or feel that loss- she’s not gone etc To the wife, it is a loss, like losing a person. Because you have. It makes me sad, but it’s important the stories are told.

I am unable to see any transwoman with wife/ex-wife and children as any sort of female ally

My view of Debbie Hayton changed when I saw the TV programme which also featured her wife.

I think it was this one: www.stellaomalley.com/trans-kids-time-to-talk

I was going to post on the other thread about how important your threads are Tinsel. There are so few places women can talk about this particular experience. And they need to, for their own sanity and also for others to learn that it’s not just about the brave-and-stunning.

I am a widow. It took DH a year from diagnosis til death. In the end he lost consciousness in his favourite chair and died in the ambulance. Our DC were 7 and 10. So the whole tragic thing.

I know I can only speak for myself but I am perfectly happy that trans widows use the phrase for themselves. It's very apt, in that the man they married has gone forever.

I feel they have it much harder than I did. The betrayal, the creepy sex stuff, the lying. It's like a friend who broke up with her DH while mine was dying. Extreme DV, an affair with her best friend - my friend hasn't a single memory of her marriage that isn't tainted.

Me? Well my DH adored me and our DC. 17 good years. The last year of his life was the best of our marriage. All the petty squabbles disappeared. All that remained was love.

It's a long time ago now. My DC are in their twenties. And I still smile every time I think of him.

Please feel free to use the phrase trans widows. It makes sense, it's descriptive.