The impact of hearing trans widows stories?

[TinselAngel]

I know a lot of FWR contributors don't want to comment on the trans widows' threads here, as they are support threads, so I thought it would be useful to have a separate thread to discuss if hearing trans widow's stories has had an impact on your view of late transitioning males and the support (or otherwise) they should revive from their wives? Or on any other gender issues?

I'd be interested to hear your views, and think it might encourage any lurkers who are in this situation to feel able to post on the current trans widows thread.

This is also inspired by Jessica's thread considering whether what we do is worth it!

haz and prawn

TinselAngel needs to be put up for an award

You're very kind. I will accept an Oscar, a Military Cross, a KBE or a gold Blue Peter badge.

Before homosexuality was as socially acceptable as it is now, it used to be the case that men would marry, have kids, and then come out later in life.

I'd imagine this is not dissimilar a situation.

One other thing I'll add. Having read the trans widows threads, whenever I hear bleating about AGP being a "discredited theory" I see it for the gaslighting it is.

If a bloke can self ID as a woman, then surely women can identify as trwans widows. I think it is an apt term and am baffled why this could be found offensive.

It's because they want to shut down the discussion but to do it in a way that avoids engaging in discussion. The last thing they want is for there to be more discussion about this aspect of the gender identity ideology.

I'm another that initially felt I shouldn't intrude on the trans widows threads.

I had a relationship with a trans person many years ago. I knew from the outset that they were questioning their gender identity (I accepted that even though I was too young to understand what it meant), we decided that as long as they felt they could live in their birth sex we could make it work but if that changed then the relationship would end. The relationship worked for 5 years and was always open, honest and respectful. They transitioned, I supported them as a friend and we remained friends for many years after. I am not a trans widow, the relationship was not abusive, my partner had dysphoria and there was no sexual element to their "feminine identity".

The threads here are humbling and educational. I have learned so much about AGP, I didn't even know it was a thing. The strength and dignity of the abused wives and partners of trans women is moving. I can only read bits at a time, it can sometimes be distressing to read others experiences nevermind have to live it.

I think it's one of the most important support threads on the site. Thank you Tinsel for being prepared to share your own experiences and help to support others. The thread reminds me how fucking amazing women are at supporting each other and also just have fucking awful some men can be.

To all those widows who have contributed here in support of the trans widows thread thank you, my eyes are leaking!

It's certainly opened my eyes to the fact that we mustn't expect every woman to be happy about her partner transitioning and women should be allowed to walk away without censure. Because she has needs and wants as well, and we don't expect other people to stick around when these no longer chime with their partners', whatever the reason. Women have the right not to be 'supportive' too!

I worked with someone whose husband transitioned in their 50s. I remember her saying she was unsure if she was a lesbian or not now.
The whole situation seemed miserable. She was in fact the main earner and her husband had given up his teaching job as was unable to continue whilst transitioning. He eventually became a recluse as I think it hadn’t gone as well as he had hoped and was embarrassed about how they looked. He used ring up work and whisper so much you could hardly hear them. They never went anywhere or did anything, such a sad life.

I'd imagine this is not dissimilar a situation.

I doubt that gay men, once they came out, gaslit, bullied and harassed their wives, while demanding that they accept their sexual wants, by changing their (the wives’) own identities, to call themselves lesbians or have sex while they play dress up. There’s absolutely no comparison.

Also, men that come out as gay have never demanded that their children and wife change their pronouns and ‘celebrate’ and affirm their identities.

Haz1516 I could have written your posts. Not only do you grieve for a Dad you no longer have, the person who was your Dad denies the reality of that past relationship and so you have that grief too. Then you are also expected to maintain a relationship with this parent because they are your parent even though they won't accept they were your Dad.

And you don't recognise many of their interests. It's all so selfish. My parent tries to talk to me about stereotypicaI 'girly' things in which I have never been interested in talking about, which they should know as my parent. Why would I have changed my views just because they have transitioned?

It's definitely an eye opener.

I wouldn't say I'm close but I do know a woman who is a trans widow. My initial thought when her husband came out as trans seemingly out of the blue was how convenient that this person had gotten what they wanted out of being a man (wife and children) before coming out as trans.

I strongly dislike the concept of deadnaming especially when it comes to children. While I don't wish to trivialise the pain of losing a beloved husband or father at least most of the time when you lose a loved one to death you can still talk about them and maybe even smile and laugh at the memories. Asking a child to pretend the father they had, maybe for years, didnt exist or else its deadnaming and "literal violence" to talk about their old male identity is very cruel and self centered.

MumInVillage, Haz1516 I can't begin to imagine how hard all this is for you. I want to thank you for telling your stories here. I hear you

Thank you Haz1516 for answering. I am often struck by the lack of support for the children (for all sorts of reasons). It must complicate life for children to continually be faced with having to censor their own feelings for fear of being labelled transphobic. Every parent knows how normal it is for children to feel hatred, exasperation, disapproval of their parents but when the parent is needy / self absorbed and the only socially acceptable response is an unquestioning 'yay' the level of self censorship must be massive.

Has anyone watched Damned? By Jo Brand. It’s about social workers. There was a character whose mother was now their father. The child was struggling because everyone else was absolutely fine with it and they felt they had no space to adjust to it or talk about it. I thought it was dealt with well.

I am mainly struck in Transwidow stories between the total logic failure of transitioning partners between their stance of "gender is really important and so important that I can't tolerate being a man any more and have to be a woman because my gender is the most important thing in the whole wide world" and "but I'm still the same person and me changing gender doesn't change our relationship". It is completely mad.

I can in no way claim any real knowledge of how this must feel.

Many years ago, however, my Mum had a boyfriend called Michael. He was aggressively macho and postured a lot in our tiny overcrowded house (5 females). He left her for someone else and they lost touch.

Ten years later she got back in touch as Cathy. My Mum was open minded and over the relationship anyway. So they met. Cathy was very unpleasant when my Mum (who wore trousers all the time and had short hair and wore little make up) didn't want to go shopping, discuss celebrity gossip and go for manicures.

My Mum had never done these things, even with 4 daughters. She preferred walking the dog on the beach and going to the pub. They had met through a love of sailing but Cathy was nothing like my Mum.

I am only glad my Mum wasn't hurt, that time had passed. This person had been married 3 times, had 2 children. I cannot imagine the pain for Cathy's children, wife, ex wives. My Mum was just bewildered and irritated.

People who believe that TWAW are terrified by the trans widows thread as can be seen by some of the responses on here. It has the power of sunlight.

Has anyone watched Damned? By Jo Brand. It’s about social workers. There was a character whose mother was now their father. The child was struggling because everyone else was absolutely fine with it and they felt they had no space to adjust to it or talk about it.

I watched it! The kid was acting up and the school couldn't understand it because they'd had cheerleading assemblies and everything. Completely missed that the kid was traumatised.

Yes: handled very well.

*Before homosexuality was as socially acceptable as it is now, it used to be the case that men would marry, have kids, and then come out later in life.

I'd imagine this is not dissimilar a situation.*

My father was gay. My parents divorced when I was a baby and my father committed suicide when I was about eight. But I remember him with great affection as do my older sisters. He didn't change his appearance, name, behaviour. He didn't mess with our minds and tell us he was our mother.

It must have been a horrible shock for our mother and she has never spoken of it, so I can't speak for her. (Homosexuality was illegal then so it must have felt very shameful, and my stepfather once let slip that they had to go away for a weekend followed by a private detective to get a divorce - the real reason couldn't be cited obviously). However they were on quite good terms, at least to my childish eye. He regularly came to stay, I remember sitting on his lap after supper as he smoked and my stepfather passed the port. My mother has never said a bad word about him, and sometimes reminisced happy times.

No, I don't think it's the same at all.

I have a friend who is a transwidow. Her husband's decision devastated her, and their kids are still reeling, some years down the line - significant MH issues, self esteem stuff, struggling at school. The father has remained entirely self absorbed through out, and hasn't supported his kids adequately financially never mind emotionally.

I have nothing but admiration for her and the way she has held everything together in the face of losing so much - including the partner she vowed to stay with until she died. They didn't just divorce, the man she married disappeared.

I read the transwidows threads and I see the same themes come out in each new woman's story - the narc husband, the utter selfishness of these men hellbent on their own obsession. The pain these women have been forced to endure is one of the things which, when I periodically check my motives to see if I am still convinced it's the right thing to stand against this ideology, dances before me and makes me quite upset - and damned sure that this whole lying edifice of trans ideology is rotten to the core.

I mean, here on this thread, just because it's not an explicit support thread and they know they can get away with it, they arrive with the only card they have, which is is this pathetic proxy whinge about the word widow.

And when a number of actual widows said "Fuck off and don't try and use my experience to back up your trans bullshit" one of them attempts some crappy subterfuge by repeating this twattish little whinge about the word widow but prefaces their insensitive shit with 'I'm GC but...' like we've never seen that shite before either.

I repeat, transwidows have my admiration, respect and determined support. Their spouses have my undying contempt, as do all the nasty little wankers who like to wound the transwidows for their own perverse sense of righteousness.

Losing your husband because he comes out as trans is no different than losing your husband because he comes out as gay but no one would dream of talking about how the gays have stolen their husband.

I want to pick up on this.

No its not the same.

The guilt trip that it's 'just the same as being gay' comes from a position of extreme ignorance.

For a long time, I struggled with this idea. I wanted to believe it, but in practice it just wasn't the same.

If you are presenting physically in a different way, by pretending to be a woman this is hugely different and psychologically incredibly difficult to cope with.

'Being a woman' raises huge questions about a wife's (or sibling's in my case) own sense of self and worth.

For me it included this sense of competition and questions about how I appeared to the world. Did their understanding of what a woman was come from me? Then there's the hyper sexualisation of the presentation. Having a brother who was now a 'sister', felt like looking into a twisted mirror. I can imagine there is a similar sense for trans widows though without the family resemblance (but is applicable to their children).

It's also not just the physical side of it, but all the stuff about changing name and the expectation that you treat someone differently based on sexist stereotypes.

If you come out as gay, this is not something that is part of the process.

It's this gaslighting that makes it a different beast that goes further and deeper than any sense of betrayal and being lied to about their sexuality.

I very much resent the 'its just like being gay' comparisons. I found them harmful and it made everything worse for me because of the emotional blackmail that was laced into the comment. I find it grossly offensive and very belittling to women affected by this directly.