The impact of hearing trans widows stories?

[TinselAngel]

I know a lot of FWR contributors don't want to comment on the trans widows' threads here, as they are support threads, so I thought it would be useful to have a separate thread to discuss if hearing trans widow's stories has had an impact on your view of late transitioning males and the support (or otherwise) they should revive from their wives? Or on any other gender issues?

I'd be interested to hear your views, and think it might encourage any lurkers who are in this situation to feel able to post on the current trans widows thread.

This is also inspired by Jessica's thread considering whether what we do is worth it!

What Floral said 100 per cent.

The transwidows thread is eye opening. A lot of it is just horrible abuse but dressed up as an identity crisis - they are getting a free pass by society by being trans.

What I also find staggering is how many of the husbands who transition clearly don't give even a tiny shit about their children's mental health or wellbeing. Which is bizarre if they 'feel like a woman' because it's quite an unfeminine way to behave.

Also this If a bloke can self ID as a woman, then surely women can identify as trans widows. What shines through the stories is that to these abusive narcissistic men, the self ID is something that should only apply to them. They believe that their wives and children don't get to define themselves. Well, sod that. Firmly on the transwidows side.

It's like a bloke who smashed his family apart to be his 'true self' for any other reason, every decent rational person would feel free to point out that his 'true self' is 'Total Git' and offer support to his devastated wife and kids.

It's only this reason that means people who think they are kind hearted liberals feel they have to laud the total git and ignore or verbally attack the wife.

Seriously, I don't use the phrase very often, but that's Essence de PeakTrans right there.

Teenagers often feel embarrassed by their parents, but can you imagine if your dad wanted to pick you up from school dressed in fishnets and calling himself Jane? And people telling you you were a bigot for being embarrassed.

What I also find staggering is how many of the husbands who transition clearly don't give even a tiny shit about their children's mental health or wellbeing.

I posted a link to this Guardian article from 2012 earlier in the thread. This bit struck me as particularly chilling.

"What if you knew that doing this would destroy one or all of the children?" I asked him. Ice cold, the man I had once thought a wonderful father replied, "I would do it anyway."

Utter, utter selfishness.

@MNHQ why has my post been deleted? I made no personal attacks or banned words, as far as I remember. You haven’t sent me an email to explain what I’ve done that someone has jumped on.

This mythical rapey blog is often mentioned (I guess by the same person), but they never come back with a link to it.

Also nobody who complains about "widow" ever comes back and explains why it's different to "dead name".

ploppers gonna plop, innit?

the other consistent strand here that stands out to me is males expecting to bond with women over stereotypically feminine activities, and how uncomfortable that often makes the women in question.

I very much resent the 'its just like being gay' comparisons. I found them harmful and it made everything worse for me because of the emotional blackmail that was laced into the comment. I find it grossly offensive and very belittling to women affected by this directly.

This makes complete sense to me. Red.

The trans widows threads can make a real difference. There might be women reading who are just at the start of it all and they might get an insight into what the coming years/decades could bring. This might give them to the confidence to say "no, I don't want this" and to leave the relationship. Or other women who are a year or two into it, reeling from what's happened, who will look at others' experiences and realise they need to get out as soon as possible rather than hope it's going to settle down into some workable arrangement where everyone's happy.

The trans widows threads can make a real difference. There might be women reading who are just at the start of it all and they might get an insight into what the coming years/decades could bring. This might give them to the confidence to say "no, I don't want this"

That's exactly what I hope it will achieve. I wish so much that I had known about the pattern of behaviour before I committed to the relationship, instead of thinking it might just be a harmless hobby. (Other than being grateful my DD exists of course, which she wouldn't, if I'd left as soon as I knew).

What I want is for other women to be able to decide what their boundaries are and stick to them, instead of letting them be pushed, broken and manipulated.

The older I get the more I realise a happy life is all about maintaining your boundaries, but how can you do that if the world is telling you your boundaries make you a bigot?

Women need to feel confident with the decision to put their own happiness and sanity first.

One of the things I've learnt from Mumsnet is how to see previous failed relationships in a new light and
come to terms with the crap I put up with.

The trans widows threads I sincerely hope, as mentioned above, will be able to help people through an impossible time and encourage them to take a stance against the 'stunning and brave' narrative is that's what they choose to do.

Just out of interest, I see the numbers of trans people given at less than 1% but there seem to be millions on twitter, on marches, in schools, fire brigades - everywhere. Anyone know the likely real figure? I've only met two in my life, one who I think was definitely genuinely dysphoric in that she was so much visibly happier, calmer and relieved when he became she, and another who sounds like a typical AGP late transitioner who is shouty and aggressive and comes across as woman-hating

the other consistent strand here that stands out to me is males expecting to bond with women over stereotypically feminine activities, and how uncomfortable that often makes the women in question.

It's weird, isn't it? It's almost like they think being female is the same as performing femininity. As a not very feminine woman I find that really hard to understand.

the other consistent strand here that stands out to me is males expecting to bond with women over stereotypically feminine activities, and how uncomfortable that often makes the women in question.

It's sexism dressed up as being your bezzie mate.

And I've just realised whose fault it was that I thought cross dressing was just a hobby- Marjorie Proops!

Growing up reading my parents Daily Mirror, there would periodically be a letter on the problem page where a wife had discovered her husband cross dressing. Marjorie would say it was just a harmless thing some men did to relax. Don't panic, it doesn't mean he's gay etc.

I wonder if that was ever actually true or if we've always been sold a lie?

Incidentally here's an article from the founder of the Women of the Beaumont Society who were of the "harmless hobby" school of thought, suggesting even 20 years ago it wasn't really that simple:

go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.gender.org.uk/conf/1998/diana.htm

Or rather here it is:

www.gender.org.uk/conf/1998/diana.htm

OldCrone - that quote from the Guardian article has never left me, to be honest.
I think about it a lot.

It made me so uncomfortable, I actually shifted in my seat. And what's worse is that that person isn't even an extreme example. It's all too common.

My heart and goes out to you all...

Reading these stories has had a big impact on me and how I see the world. Reading the FWR board on Mumsnet has had a big impact generally. I am now able to articulate my thoughts & ideas more clearly, even if only to myself. I can see how I have been so easily manipulated throughout my life. No more.

Not so long ago I had a lover, I didn't want anything else from him, who was married. I found out that he was into cross dressing and we talked about it. He'd been doing it in secret for years. His wife was having none of it (they were southern European, not sure if that made any difference), thought it was just plain wrong. I entertained the idea of his cross dressing being part of our secret sex life, but we actually split up for other reasons before that happened.

I had thought his wife was a boring old spoil sport, being unkind, all the other stuff. I now realise how very wrong I was - she knew she was in danger of losing the man she'd married and she wasn't going to smile and put up with it. Good for her.

I'm stunned reading all the transwidow stories, still shocked at the level of selfishness that some men consider more than acceptable and marvel at the way you deal with it. Much love to you all.

The stories from these women are remarkable and shocking.
They live through this at the worst possible time culturally, where it's impossible (and at times dangerous to oneself) to even question trans ideology. And I feel so upset that their children are unable to find neutral support for fear of being thought transphobic. Late-transitioning male parents seem repeatedly to put their needs (rather than their children's) first, and display consistently misogynistic attitudes. I have an ex-colleague who did this, and his obsession with personal grooming, skirts, make-up, painted nails etc. was very marked. Plus he spent loads of money on himself and gave only minimal child maintenance which several of us thought shameful. The outdated male view of femininity shines through in the transwidows' stories and no decent feminist should be cheerleading for the new improved 'women' over the women and mothers left behind, often financially beggared to finance the sexist fabrication of a male's view of an ideal woman. It is so wearing that there is no debate, no open, safe, fairly-mediated discussion, for academics or people wanting to discuss this in the media. And yes, the aggression, the dominance, the bullying and the putting of onesself before others/children, is sadly so very male and so glaringly obvious. It can be the only reason people try to silence these women. Their real lived experience apparently counts for nothing, as does their self-identification. One rule for the departing men and another for these women. I think it's entirely appropriate that this thread should have been created and shared for us all to see what actually goes on; the media coverage is 99% positive, happy endings etc.

Some people really are scared of the sunlight, aren't they? They can't help themselves.

The trans widows threads (and no, as a woman who was widowed by a long term common law partner many many years ago, I am not "offended" by the term) reveal just how much gaslighting and abuse goes on when these men decide they are really "women".

Their wives and families are expected to change pronouns and names of the person they have known for years, in some cases all their lives, their wives are to identify as lesbians in a homosexual relationship and make sure they don't do anything that "triggers" their husband - whether that is failing to recognize their husband's penis as a "female penis", or inexplicably, asking him to fold the laundry.

The families are expected to cater to the delusions of the man at the expense of their own mental health, to sacrifice themselves financially for example so he can do whatever it takes to "feel like a woman", which seems to range from shopping sprees, to surgeries, to not having to work as they want to be provided for (but again don't dare ask them to do the dishes! It's like throwing the fact they were not raised as girls in their face, apparently!).

The misogyny runs rampant and roughshod over women and their children, yet is disguised and even defended in flowery language of being "brave and stunning"

If a mother behaved towards her family in the way many of these trans widow's spouses do the reaction would be very different. I wonder why that is?

It was a trans widow or, more accurately, a trans ghost who peak-transed me.

We have a family friend who is MTF trans and extremely high profile in their industry. (I'm going to use they/their as I'm talking about before and after and I'm a bear of little brain and it's easier all round).

As a male on their rise up through the corporate world they posed in magazines with their wife and children and had puff piece written about their idillic life and careers. Very aspirational-lifestyle stuff. I took a vague interest as it was someone I knew reasonably well in my youth who was doing well for themselves and it felt like a million miles from my average (but happy!) lifestyle.

Things went silent for a while before the brave and stunning transformation and the new publicity that surrounded it. This was the first person that I knew personally that was trans and I was utterly perplexed at the adulation that surrounded the announcement and every subsequent time they were mentioned in the media. 'Oh well' I thought 'each to their own. As long as they aren't hurting anyone does it matter that they've changed name and clothing?'

However their wife and children have all but been erased. There is no mention of them in all of the 'trans role model' interviews and none in the 'women's ally' puff pieces.

Their digital footprint has gone. The 'dead name' has been removed from internet searches along with all of the old images both of this person as a man and with their family.

Now I don't know the wife or kids and I am totally projecting how I would feel but... bloody hell. If I were her and I had been used to further my husband's career by playing the trophy wife, only to be wiped away without a trace now that it is not convenient anymore, I don't think I would ever get over the betrayal. And that's on top dealing with it on a personal level in private. To mean so little to your former husband that all trace of your relationship is wiped out must be crushing.

I don't even know her name to look her up in her own right (because I only knew her as Mrs family-friend). That's why she is a trans-ghost rather than a trans-widow to me. I know she exists but I have no evidence of her.

If this sounds like you or someone you know, your story (or lack of it) inspired me to find out more about trans activism and brought me to the feminism boards. I'm in your debt.

Blimey, kitchen, that’s a proper Stalinist airbrushing from history. Horrifying.

Bereft, empty, these sound very like the descriptions given by trans widows, from the origins of the word widow an apt discription i think.

The trans widow threads are eye opening, sad and make you look at transitions men with famies in different ways, as does the clip of Debbie's wife, she looks so unhappy ☹️ she may not be but it pulls at the heart stings.
Huge hugs to those going through, or who have gone through this x

That article written by Diana Aitchison of the Beaumont Society is both enlightening and horrifying. I'd heard that MTF trans mimic their wives but I hadn't realised it went so deep or was so psychologically destructive to the woman being copied. She's being treated as a resource as men often do to women, this time for his autogynephilia.

I'd always thought about the harm that a man causes when he demands that his wife and children accept him as a woman. How does a family get past that? The trans widows thread though, shows it all in such detail and happening to real women - it's very distressing. People who simply accept the trans narrative of "brave and stunning' without giving a single thought to the women and children left in the wake are either incredibly shallow or misogynistic. Either way it doesn't reflect well on them.