The impact of hearing trans widows stories?

[TinselAngel]

I know a lot of FWR contributors don't want to comment on the trans widows' threads here, as they are support threads, so I thought it would be useful to have a separate thread to discuss if hearing trans widow's stories has had an impact on your view of late transitioning males and the support (or otherwise) they should revive from their wives? Or on any other gender issues?

I'd be interested to hear your views, and think it might encourage any lurkers who are in this situation to feel able to post on the current trans widows thread.

This is also inspired by Jessica's thread considering whether what we do is worth it!

I have found the threads eye opening.

In the media a trans individual is generally lauded as brave and stunning with no mention of the impact on others.

It's the same with the phrase self-ID which as someone on another thread pointed out is wrong because it's not about self-ID it's about legislating to force others to ID them the same.

The whole movement is entirely focused on the trans individual, others around that individual are not considered at all.

This is what most people are exposed to - it's so important to see the story from the other side.

if their husbands had actually died they would not be expected to celebrate it and get accused of being selfish and transphobic if they didn’t !
But if those ladies choose to use the term widows then there’s nothing wrong with that.
As for reading their stories I feel absolute compassion for them and their children who have had their husband/father replaced by something completely different but are expected not to complain. It’s great that they have somewhere they can support each other

By the way, kimlo, if you’re going to go with your logic, then that means MNHQ should permit us to use so called ‘dead names’, as that person hasn’t actually died. Since you feel we have to stick to using correct terminology, you must then agree people can’t change sex and we can use the names they were given when their sex was identified at birth, as they haven’t actually DIED.

A slight derailment - apologies - but can I just say that I adore the way you talk about your late husband Prawnofthepatriarchy. The love you shared shines through.

Their threads show the true disruption heartache, gaslighting and damage to those left behind to pick up the pieces.

Those threads are personal and I thank all those that shared.

kimlo

You need to start a campaign then to ban the use of golf widow/fishing widow/any hobby widow. These women experience great loss. They are told the man they knew, loved, had children with no longer exists. That their old name is a DEAD name. How would you describe them?

With regards to the Guardian article quoted above, I'd urge anybody with an interest in all this to read the full book, particularly people who question the use of "widow" (not that they will bother, they generally just plop, deliver what they feel to be a devastating coup de grace, then bugger off again).

Christine was a writer before all this happened so describes it all in a way I just haven't got the patience to do. In particular she describes how her local community turned against her rather than her creepy ex:

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/SexChanges.html?id=woCwapsmJiIC&printsec=frontcover&source=kpp_readbutton&redirr_esc=y

Prawn, thanks as ever for your input.

Of course trans widow is the appropriate term, the man they married is gone just as completely as if they had died. I read those threads with horror at what is expected of those women, the weight they are shouldering and the sheer entitlement of the husbands that their choices must be pandered to. I know very few women who would blow their husband and children's lives apart purely for their own benefit, that's a much more commonly male behaviour, which seems completely at odds with the notion that they are, in fact, female

I haven't read the whole thread yet (but I'm about to) what I do think about the transwidows thread and transwidows stories in general are that they have had an enormous effect on me. I have commented on those threads (under a different name) to say as much to the women who contribute. Every time I see an older man with a family transition now I think of the people around them the women and children and how they are affected and I will always think of them now, first and foremost. Those stories are incredibly important, giving those women a voice is crucial because in the media they are always ignored. Their stories are important because they really do show the other side of the coin, they highlight worrying patterns of behaviour and commonalities which might otherwise be buried. In doing this they allow the women going through this to see they are not alone, to perhaps understand more about what happened to them and they educate the rest of us.

On other forums I have directed the odd person to the women on the transwidows threads here - when they are in a similar situation because I think the threads are so important. All the women on those threads have my admiration and support - always.

Thank you, Lang. He was a big. lovely, funny man who looked a lot like Tommy Cooper. He'd have laughed if you called him a feminist but he hadn't a misogynist bone in his body.

And now I'll stop with my song of love...

Prawnofthepatriarchy for you

Seriously!!
I can't believe this was the first response.

I think the term trans widow is highly offensive to actual widows.

They haven't died.

Had to get that in quick eh? This was dealt with on the actual thread where many actual widows understood the term.

Prawn, I think I've got something in me eye.

I am unable to see any transwoman with wife/ex-wife and children as any sort of female ally

Too right. I was already peaked, but this was the flag on the summit.

Thank you for posting this Tinsel I have seen it the thread on the list of threads, but as others have said, have avoided it due to the assumption of being a support thread.

I will make an effort to have a read as it sounds like an incredibly important aspect that I have actually overlooked. Oh and to the poster feigning offense at the use of the term “widow” do you call out women that refer to themselves as golf or cricket widows? Plenty of them out there. I suspect not.

Ahaha I was beaten to it with the golf etc widow reference. As it should be. Carry on.

The contrast between the first post, and the love and compassion shown by the subsequent posts, is overwhelming.

MsMaisel

It is not the same thing at all. When someone takes on a new identity and gender, the other person is considered not to exist or have ever existed- hence the term deadname.

Genuine question, if a woman came out as a lesbian and asked for a divorce, would you say she was selfish for not considering her husband’s feelings?

Depends. If she knew she was a lesbian and married, had a family and then left, yes, totally selfish. It’s wrong to create a life with a person in those circumstances. Very unfair to them.

MsMaisel, you seem to have a very confusing definition of GC. If the women here who have lost their husbands to death, have no issue with the women who have lost their husbands to a fetishise, then why have you a problem with it. Please don’t compare men who identify as trans, with gay men. The two have nothing in common and it’s extremely transphobic and homophobic to compare the two.

Certainly it has changed my perspective.

I have a trans friend whom I would describe as a reluctant trans activist (got sucked in to stuff through no fault of her own and is now trying to distance self from it ). On facebook, she is praised for this that and the other (none of these things being the things that make her an interesting person).
Always in private the conversations would be about the children and ex wife. I would be largely silent, because, I now realise, I had swallowed the idea that they ought to be celebrating my friend's transition and so I found the angst baffling.

I do consider my friend brave (though not stunning) but not for coming out or being a high profile trans person or for continuing to be so despite having experienced some physical assaults but rather for recognising the huge impact of her actions on, especially, the children and dedicating herself to trying to rebuild some sort of relationship with the children and establish a working relationship with the ex wife and in particular for meeting financial obligations and recognising that she cannot hope for things to be what they were and that's on her.

interestingly she does try to write about this stuff (not the individuals of course but nuanced stuff) but no-one listens, she is drowned out by a deluge of groupies who find her trendy/useful and tell her she is brave and stunning etc etc. She even turned down a certain prize (don't want to out) and wrote an open letter telling them why but no one listened.

So it's a bit like being a king surrounded by flattering courtiers. You're trying to be a father still but everyone around you is saying that your feelings matter more than those of your family. Lots of praise but it's junk-food praise.

MsMaisel

I am sorry you find it offensive but as it has already been pointed out terms like golf widow are widely used are you offended by that too?

I actually feel that trans widow is much more akin to being a widow than a golf widow is. It is very descriptive and amplifies the loss of their husband/father/partner who no longer exists, cannot be referred to and who's identity has been wiped out with a new person in their place.

MsMaisel which blog are you referring to?

As it happens I do believe people who are married have a right to expect it to be possible to have a sexual relationship with each other. If a man is voluntarily sterilised and his penis inverted, thus making conventional heterosexual sex and reproduction impossible, I think that breaks the marriage contract. Morally, if not necessarily legally (although legally as well I guess as it would be considered unreasonable behaviour in a divorce petition).