The impact of hearing trans widows stories?

[TinselAngel]

I know a lot of FWR contributors don't want to comment on the trans widows' threads here, as they are support threads, so I thought it would be useful to have a separate thread to discuss if hearing trans widow's stories has had an impact on your view of late transitioning males and the support (or otherwise) they should revive from their wives? Or on any other gender issues?

I'd be interested to hear your views, and think it might encourage any lurkers who are in this situation to feel able to post on the current trans widows thread.

This is also inspired by Jessica's thread considering whether what we do is worth it!

I'd be interested to know the answer if there's any family lawyers on here.

If a woman does exercise the spousal veto and the marriage is annulled, do they still have the same right to ancillary relief etc from their husband that they would have following a divorce?

If you are not legally married then how could you get the legal protections that a marriage would have through divorce?

It strikes me as another potential way to force women to stay married because financially they are left exposed and without legal rights. Or lets men walk away from a marriage without a woman having any recourse.

In the context of a potentially abusive relationship this is bad and equally if you had a man who just wanted to fuck over his wife surely he could use this as a loop hole in the law.

If self ID comes in this is particularly important because why not 'legally become a woman' with no real intention of changing your gender identity if its financially better for you?

Either way I can't see how it's good generally for women. All it does is give further power to the male partner and enables an abdication of responsibility to the family unit.

How could the courts tell the difference between a 'genuine trans case' and a man just using the law to screw his wife?

This is along the lines of what I was thinking

If you are not legally married then how could you get the legal protections that a marriage would have through divorce?

It was important to me at the time of my marriage breakdown that it was on the record that I had divorced him based on his unreasonable behaviour. I didn't want our marriage annulled as if he had always been a woman, so I never had the right to be married.

A lot of discussion around the spousal veto seems a bit of a red herring to me. It was necessary before same sex marriage because once one party got a gender recognition certificate the marriage would become invalid as it was no longer legally between a man and a woman.

I don't think the spousal veto could have prevented transition in practice. Presumably it stopped the granting of a GRC while you were still married. Either party could then get a divorce instead.

It's probably been so little used that nobody knows.

Which says a lot really. When you try and research the spousal veto there's loads of articles by TRA's. Why are they all so het up about something that is barely used?

Reading the stories of these women helped me to support my friend when her trans partner gaslighted (gaslit?) and eventually left her, whilst also convincing a majority proportion of their mutual acquaintances that it was my friend who was abusive. She has completely swallowed the kool aid and thoroughly believes TWAW and so on, but it definitely helped me to point her in the direction of help.

I also met a few trans widows in person and they were inspiring and lovely women. I am really glad that these women have the opportunity to speak out, inform us, and support each other.

Wanted to answer before I get stuck into reading and get distracted.

Has hearing trans widow's stories had an impact on my view of late transitioning males - yes, and one of these days I'll get round to giving thanks for it on the Transwidows thread itself.

I was still grappling with the cognitive dissonance of trying to be a good little progressive lefty and understand mainstream feminism when I met a man with a fondness for women's underwear. I was very accepting - they're just pants, y'know? - and we ended up having a kid, which is how I found MN. Gravitated to FWR, scales gradually fell from my eyes, spoke to him about my thoughts throughout every step of the journey.

I'll skip the lengthy rambling narrative of how we got here, but I'm now so radfem I intuitively understand Dworkin, and I've dragged him along every step of the way, and he admitted recently that he's been making a conscious effort to rein in the AGP because he recognises the harms.

(I think me ranting - repeatedly, and at great length - about people "fetishing the shackles of my oppression" helped somewhat.)

Reading the Transwidows thread told me exactly what to look out for, what not to indulge, how important keeping this fetish away from our child was. What resistances I could expect, how they might manifest. Most importantly it showed me the necessity of fighting back and not submitting to the fetish or the worldview - of digging my heels in before he got sucked into viewing his fetish through the trans narrative. I was lucky; he still felt (and feels) the shame of transvestism. If he'd found a way to convert that shame into a brave and stunning display of dominance, we'd have all been fucked.

All of the transwidows here (and elsewhere) will always have my gratitude for speaking up and refusing to be silenced. As will all the brave women of FWR, without whom the cognitive dissonance would have overwhelmed me.

@Tyrotoxicity it would be fascinating to hear on the trans widows thread how he's avoided being sucked into transgenderism!

Only a couple of hours ago Tyrotoxicity I was mulling over asking the thread this question:

Is AGP a one-way street or does anyone have experience of any men using force of will to prevent themselves falling further into their fetish?

Honest answer?

I radfemmed HARD at him. He trusted me enough to listen and try to engage; he trusted my intellectual capacity; he didn't want to lose me by being unwilling to listen. And he doesn't speak much or let himself show much emotion (daddy issues) which gave me the freedom to speak at length and in detail.

He did try devil's advocating once or twice, back when the conversation first really exploded on here a few years ago. He got exceptionally short shrift, and when he looked uncomfortable about it, I told him if he wanted to be submissive and be dominated he was bloody well going to sit there and LISTEN or else fuck off.

I doubt he'll ever be cured of the fetish entirely - I doubt that's possible. But his mind is inoculated against the transition narrative of AGP. The vaccine, in this case, was radical feminist political analysis, coming from someone he loved and trusted and feared losing enough to set his ego aside and listen.

Hi, my father transitioned around 35 years ago, when I was in my early teens. It had a huge impact on my life and is one of the reasons I am gender critical. Friends (most of them much more experienced Mumsnetters than me!) have suggested this thread might be a good place to start in my search for a good place to tell my story with an aim to reach out to trans orphans and trans widows.

Don't forget the thread from which this one came GoodbyePiccadilly:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3471122-trans-widows-escape-committee-2-the-trans-widows-strike-back

Welcome @GoodbyePiccadilly

I wonder if there's enough of you to start a "Children of transitioners" thread? It would be such a useful resource.

I don't like the term "trans orphans", as my daughter is not an orphan just because her Dad transitioned, but I guess that possibly makes me a massive hypocrite if that's the name you have chosen.

Thanks! Will have a read and consider starting a thread!

What's FWR?

FWR = Feminism & Women's Rights.

It's what the feminism board used to be called. The acronym stuck when they changed the name.

Have started a thread called 'Children of Transitioners' :-)
Any insights welcome!

twitter.com/cyberwanderlust/status/1154303467411914753?s=21

Twitter link to clip of DH's wife, from Stella O Malley doc.

I learn an awful lot on here, not least in the FWR and the Transwidows threads. My heart goes out to the women stuck and fighting the tide.

Haz1516
My dad started his transition when I was about 11. I am 48 now. I had a Dad. I loved him. I feel like I have spent years mourning him.

Trying to write about it at childrenoftransitioners.org