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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Mhairi Black

367 replies

Iggypoppie · 03/07/2019 19:56

This short film with Mhairi reading out (mostly respectful) comments from women is really sad. I have always admired her but like many politicians she is unable to comprehend the issues women are raising. She says there is no evidence or legitimacy in our concerns. Oh well.

twitter.com/MhairiBlack/status/1146476340864081920?s=20

OP posts:
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11
BazzleJet · 03/09/2019 09:54

I certainly do not share any of my toilets at home with random strangers!

CraftyWoman · 03/09/2019 10:56

The whole "but you share loos with males at home" thing is such a self gotcha.

Yes, I do share my loo with DH, DS and invited guests of both sexes. (note the word in italics, it's important)

I have never yet walked into my loo to find some strange person in there. Not even a workman.

If these people think that they might meet random strangers in their loos at home, that could be because they have opened their bathrooms to the public, in which case it would be useful to let people know where they live so that a wider range of the public could use them too.

If they do actually safeguard their personal space, then why are they allowed to do that, while the prevent women from doing the same?

CharlieParley · 03/09/2019 12:25

I think this automatic assumption that because I am a woman therefore my opinion is more accurate than anybody elses on this: well no, not if you're an uninformed woman. I mean if you're a woman who has never met a trans person in your life, or who's never taken the time to actually understand things then you know, you're failing at it. (my empasis)

Interesting isn't it, that Mhairi is framing objectors as the uninformed here as well as suggesting that if only we'd meet the lovely trans people she knows, we would all know better.

DS1 at first was very offended when I talked to him about the issue. Once I dug deeper, it turned out that he's friendly with a medically transitioned HSTS in the year above him at university who from the description was probably puberty blocked and put on cross sex hormones by 16. He had no idea that people like his friend (who'd been seeking advice about boyfriend troubles) were already protected by the law but that the law was now to be extended to crossdressers etc.

It's entirely likely that Mhairi knows mainly or only HSTS. In fact as she is homosexual herself I fully expect that during her time at university, she'll have had far more contact with them at first, especially with transitioned/transitioning lesbians than crossdressers and autogynephiles.

Any later contact with the boundary violating type may well be filed away as deviations from the norm, even though crossdressers and Autogynephiles vastly outnumber HSTS in real life.

Her toilet argument does sadly come across as immature and a demonstration of that which she accuses us of - she simply hasn't thought deeply enough about it to truly understand.

Toilets at home are:

  • not open to the public so that no random stranger will ever walk in off the street, half drunk at 2am.
  • not normally mixed-sex multi-entry facilities but unisex single-entry facilities instead.

One room containing one toilet plus sink (and possibly also shower/bathtub) that only one person at a time can use to relieve themselves.

  • rules of engagement can be arranged with the people one lives with, for instance in a shared flat (something Mhairi may be familiar with).

My son shared with girls in his student digs for several years and whenever they had more than one toilet/bathroom, they strictly limited each toilet for the use of one sex only.

Similarly at home, as I am the only female member of the household, I have set strict privacy rules. And my kids are now far too embarrassed to want their privacy violated to not understand why I insist on mine. I'm not saying it's perfect, but we have agreed rules even between people who love and respect each other.

It's sound bites and lazy thinking more than Mhairi's insults that disappoint me. I do strangely enough appreciate opponents who put a lot of deep though and much effort into their arguments. Alas, based on this interview that clearly is not Mhairi.

CharlieParley · 03/09/2019 12:27

^deep thought

woman19 · 03/09/2019 13:43

Black is great. So is the SNP right now.
Unless you're a brexitty man.

MockersthefeMANist · 03/09/2019 13:47

Is this "sharing a toilet" done tandem or side-saddle?

BeMoreMagdalen · 03/09/2019 14:02

Cor, the pro-Mhairi posters on this thread are making such fabulous arguments. I could so easily be swayed into thinking she was amazing by the repeated insistence that "She's great!" with no evidence to back up that assertion whatsoever.

woman19 · 03/09/2019 14:04

Which MP do you prefer then Magdalen?

BeMoreMagdalen · 03/09/2019 14:11

19 I dont have much time for any of them, tbh. I'm ever on the lookout for one who knows what a woman is and is prepared to protect the rights and freedoms women in the UK deserve. Not really very complicated. Mhairi doesn't qualify, sadly.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 03/09/2019 14:16

I'm as unconvinced by that statement as I am by the opposing statement that a poster gets apologised to because they are clocked as a woman

Whenever anyone has bumped into me they’ve just said sorry

I would say before they have even looked at me

thatdamnwoman · 03/09/2019 14:18

I'm interested that so many 'super-smart' people seem not to be able to see what's going on here.

At the moment I'm sitting back and watching two friends of mine, both with science PhDs, managing to stay woke and hip by taking the line that hormonal fluctuations during gestation may be responsible for making married fathers in their 40s and 50s suddenly decide that they were born into the wrong body and urgently need to get into a frock. I intervened sarcastically at one point and suggested that perhaps blood types and antibodies might have something to do with it and they thought it was a serious suggestion and gave it some attention before ruling it out.

What is it about some very clever people that means that they can debate differences at a cellular level and get excited about anomalies but overlook the fact that whether one is born with a vagina or a penis determines, to a huge extent and the world over, one's earning power, career prospects and time spent carrying out housework – and for much of the world, one's right to vote, have an education, show one's face in public and go out without an escort. What do they think they understand that we don't?

woman19 · 03/09/2019 14:18

19 I dont have much time for any of them

I completely understand but......

There's one sure fire way of letting dodgy sexists into power:

Abdiction of political engagement and organising of actions of Women.

Which is of course, what is being encouraged.....

2BthatUnnoticed · 03/09/2019 14:19

Why are the user names always so obvious. 1/10. Mhairi does have fans, though.

Mhairi Black
Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 03/09/2019 14:21

Who on earth is tessa in the twitter link zebras posted

They must REALLY struggle in life

2BthatUnnoticed · 03/09/2019 14:29

Agreed rufus, it was Chinese people querying those runners’ sex which prompted this into the English language media.. if they hadn’t we would be completely unaware.

BeMoreMagdalen · 03/09/2019 14:30

There's one sure fire way of letting dodgy sexists into power:

Abdiction of political engagement and organising of actions of Women.

And? Where have I said I don't engage politically? And what does the second part of the sentence mean?

3mks · 03/09/2019 14:35

They could have a point about some chemical imbalance, but this would be present from birth and would simply mean they were more masculine or feminine in personality. Much like studies which show male offenders have high levels of (I think testosterone) which is thought to cause them to be more aggressive. This would not however draw the conclusion that they are the opposite sex as that is determined by chromosomes.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 03/09/2019 14:43

It's entirely likely that Mhairi knows mainly or only HSTS. In fact as she is homosexual herself I fully expect that during her time at university, she'll have had far more contact with them at first, especially with transitioned/transitioning lesbians than crossdressers and autogynephiles

Is this likely?

I'm not saying you're wrong, not least because I'm both old enough to be Black's mother and heterosexual, but it flies in the face of my own experience.

I have only ever once met a HSTS, while autogynephiles, or transvestites as they used to be known were common enough when I was growing up/a young adult. Common enough that our mothers and grandmothers quietly advised us to avoid them. The relationship between cross dressing and offending behaviours was considered common knowledge in my younger days.

woman19 · 03/09/2019 15:22

Why do you lot attack a young Women MP so much?

She is stepping down at the next election; the bullying probably hasn't helped; particularly from the vile tory men who swear at her every time she speaks in the House.

There used to be a Sisterhood. Sad

truthisarevolutionaryact · 03/09/2019 15:29

Have you read the thread woman19 ? Have you read the insults that she is throwing at women who don't agree with her and are seeking to safeguard women's rights and children's safety? Is that the "sisterhood" you are talking about?

BeMoreMagdalen · 03/09/2019 15:30

Define sisterhood. Maybe those vile tory men actually identify as her sisters.

I mean, I know they aren't, so I'd be quite happy to stick up for her in general. But she thinks I'm a cunt for knowing a penis is male and not wanting one to share an exclusively female space with me, so I don't think she's really one for sisterhood herself.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 03/09/2019 15:40

Sisterhood? She called women c**ts. She is not my sister.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/09/2019 15:51

There used to be a Sisterhood

Till a subset of women started centering males instead of other women. Go make your sad faces at Mhairi and her ilk.

2BthatUnnoticed · 03/09/2019 15:53

Criticising a politician’s conduct is not an attack.

If some “vile Tory men” are bullying Mhairi, go take it up with them.

The movement pressuring us to “be nice,” to prioritise the feelings of some males over the safety of many women... is the same one nailing dead rats to the door when we say No.

Keep calm and say No.

2BthatUnnoticed · 03/09/2019 15:58

This is the outcome of removing female-only spaces.

Only rarely does it make the news (eg Katie Dolatowski).

Mhairi Black