Mhairi Black

[Iggypoppie]

This short film with Mhairi reading out (mostly respectful) comments from women is really sad. I have always admired her but like many politicians she is unable to comprehend the issues women are raising. She says there is no evidence or legitimacy in our concerns. Oh well.

twitter.com/MhairiBlack/status/1146476340864081920?s=20

I would say her strength, her clarity of thinking, her compassion, and her spirit!

A wonderful role model for all.types of women?
Yes, even women with a cock and balls.

Honesty, I don't think anyone should be allowed into this conversation without proffering a definition of "woman".

will navigate, at least socially, as a woman.

On the off chance you're still here, what does this mean?

It doesnt mean anything tangible, it is what it is, for instance rarely, but if I get caught short, I use the ladies...if somebody bumps into me I get apologised to in the female gender for instance....so a man will say 'oops sorry love'.... whether I pass or not I cba getting into that here... but that is the space I navigate within....and though the instances it is relevant are fleeting, it is within a different social space and experience that I inhabited previously.

Don't assume my beliefs.

Can you suggest a handy term for the biological sex class that has XX chromosomes and has the ability to gestate young, in the absence of medical anomaly? I used to use "female" and "women" but obvs that's no longer accurate.

Woman = being called 'love'.

Jesus fucking Christ. I've heard plenty of men called 'love' - I sometimes call my students 'love' (of both sexes). Doesn't make the boys girls.

And, as ever, we get a wishy-washy 'I can't explain it but it won't stop me using your toilets even though I shouldn't'.

Still not seeing any definition of 'woman' apart from the good old 'adult human female'.

You could say the term woman in ~99.6% of cases is a female-assigned-at-birth woman.

I think we'd rather stick with saying that 'woman' in all cases (bar a few intersex people) is observed to be female before or at birth, with XX chromosomes.

Transwomen are males, and may 'navigate socially' in a 'feminine' manner ...doesn't make them women.

So herein the uk for instance our language now includes terms such as trans woman, transgender woman, transexual woman etc etc

You can google all these terms and variations and will see quite clearly they are all defined types of women

If you google these terms you'll actually find they are all types of men. Only men can be transwomen.

Only men can be transwomen

It's not very inclusive, is it?

Why can I, as a woman who is Stonewall Trans, not call myself a trans woman?

It would just make the word a bit more inclusive, and that's what we want right?

The word "woman" is a sex designator signifying an adult human female. It does not encompass men claiming womanhood. And an "xyz woman" in the adjective and noun combination defines a woman, that is adult human females, not any kind of man, however he identifies.

Feminism is a movement that fights for the rights of female people. It is exclusionary by design and character. This fight does not, never has and never will include fighting for the rights of males, especially not when doing so has a detrimental effect on females.

There may be considerable overlap with other rights movements, such as with Marxist feminism and the class struggle or Black feminism and the civil rights movement in the US, but any branch of the movement that decides to centre and prioritise the needs of males over and above the needs of females has thereby excluded itself from feminism proper. As is the case with those endorsing and promoting transgender ideology and legislation.

I didnt say being called Love= woman clearly..... I didn't even claim to be a woman if you looked carefully.... but yeah, it's mumsnet innit?

I mean you can deny reality, or you you can google 'trans woman' and pretend it finds no hits if you like.

The definitions that have evolved within society surpass your exclusive old school definitions.

It is simply a fact that the term 'trans woman' exists and used widely across public discourse.

People know this to be someone assigned male at birth who navigates society socially as a woman.

Why you're all so desperate to deny simple reality is both mystifying and entertaining.

Great post Charlie, agree 100%.

People know this to be someone assigned male at birth who navigates society socially as a woman.

A man, in other words. In what way do you think women 'navigate society' differently from men? Apart from using different sex-segregated spaces (which no man, however he identifies, should be using).

transtrendy so you’re female gender, and a man and he / him pronouns are a ok?

So you’ll not get cross when we correctly sex you if we talk about you?

Trans women are male, by definition.

Transtrendy, goad all you like. Crack on if that gives you a thrill.

I am wondering who Mhairi Black's role model is?

1. Tells steaming great whoppers and expects to get away with it,
eg. claims to have been routinely "challenged" by other women when using The Ladies, despite being obviously female, while at the same time claiming that transwomen routinely use The Ladies and women do not notice.

2. Perceives anyone who disagrees with her as "the enemy" and verbally abuses them,
eg. calls women with genuine concerns "rhymes with Jeremy Hunt", bigots and transphobes.

3. Declares that she will steam-roller over any opposition and get her own way, ie. two-fingers to democracy and the common people,
eg. whatever the outcome of the consultation on the Scottish GRA.

Yep. No doubt about it: Mhairi MacTrumpette

Noone is assigned at birth.

Sex is determined at conception, and is unalterable. Sex characteristics develop the same initially and then differentiate into those usually associated with female, and male, sex norms.

Its funny as every baby looks like a female up till that point, which i heard is why men have a small amount of breast tissue and nipples!

Obviously they're not female, they'd still be male, just haven't developed sex characteristics at that point.

Is someone trying to re-write biology here?

I do understand the wish to not be the genetic sex thats been determined from conception and thats up to anyone to do with as they will.

I'd like to self-id as pregnant and have some more maternity leave, etc. Type stuff. Or like, aryana, id as another nationality to appeal to a different audience, wouldn't change her biological and genetic make up, but could her cultural perspective and behaviour audience

As someone with a background in archaeology I cannot get onboard with the idea sex is merely assigned at birth.
It is woven into your DNA and identifiable thousands of years later.
I have no objections to people choosing to identify and live as another gender but your sex is going nowhere. It will be identified millenniums later after almost every other identifying feature about you had disintegrated.

If you Google women there are no definitions I can see that includes the word transwomen......

you can deny reality
Sums up the current trans fad very well ; denying reality a sign of our times.
#biologymatters
Thanks Joss, I might send your wise words into Mhairi, she’s got herself rather tangled up with reality vs imagination.

Why is she a role model?

She isn't.

I'm reminded of something the redoubtable Donkeyskin once said hereabouts. Here she is.

Material reality does not change. And nor does the unavoidable reflection of it that can be seen in our eyes.