"Would you date a trans person?" Mostly, no. So you're basically killing them.

[Lamaha]

www.westernjournal.com/study-claims-transgenders-suffering-straight-people-arent-dating/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PostTopSharingButtons&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons&fbclid=IwAR3CCd-QbUiftS3m57Zf8KLHAE309pl3HzHmwNqKjv1IHrc3ODC76wm3PdY

Is anyone surprised by the result?
But: it's simply transphobia. People need to wake up.
Biological men and women who need to get with the times. Just like white people wouldn't date people of colour back in the day,
... it is not until the straight community begins dating transgenders at a higher rate that Western civilization will truly show itself to be accepting and safe for the LGBT community.

“(I)t is one thing to make space for diverse gender identities within our workplaces, schools, washrooms and public spaces,” Blair wrote. “But it is another to fully include and accept gender diversity within our families and romantic relationships.

So, now that they've won the loos and prisons and hospitals, the next goal is in sight... and it's US.
People, prepare for girldick etc.

So when someone tells me I should train myself to overcome my body's exclusive reactions to women - what's in that for me? Nothing. Except being a Good Girl. To a patriarchal group. Who see me and my body as there only to provide men with what they need and require me to put them first in all things. And sex is framed as something that men get to enjoy and where men get to have their choices and feelings and needs and desires respected and centred - but women don't.

Brilliantly put, Michelle.

So to follow this to the end of the line, should I train myself to accept my rapist? I currently exclude him from my dating pool.

I'm curious to see if someone has done studies on the smells of trans people taking hormones. Does a woman taking T with loads of body hair smell more male?

I've definitely noticed man smell, but not women. Maybe because I am attracted to men it stands out to me.

The thinking that people must change their sexual preferences goes so against everything we've learnt from the gay rights movement too. For years, rightly, gay people have been fighting the idea that sexuality is a choice, arguing that instead it is the way you are born and you can't change it. And now, suddenly, we are all transphobic for not being able to alter our sexuality to become attracted to those with the organs of the sex we are not attracted to? It makes no sense.

I've definitely noticed man smell, but not women. Maybe because I am attracted to men it stands out to me.

Maybe it’s just that being a woman means you are always surrounded by a ‘woman’ smell and don’t notice it. Men probably don’t notice other men’s smell.

We notice smells unlike our own; that’s why some Japanese think Europeans smell of dairy products.

Haven’t really looked into smells recently, other than the immunity and fear studies noted above.

According to Cordelia Fine, mother rats lick their male pups more than female ones because of the smell of the testosterone in their urine but humans would probably get locked up for that.

I just really don't see how being heterosexual and dating a trans person intersect

I'm a heterosexual woman, who likes penises (in context) and wanted to have children. there is nothing about dating a biological female that would work for me

dating a male who had taken oestrogen, thereby in all likelihood landing thenselves with erectile dysfunction - doesn't work for me

I would also know that the individual was male, which if they're trying to convince themselves that they're a lesbian, wouldn't work for them. And I sure as hell wouldn't be pretending that I was a lesbian

it's just a disaster. and as I've said before, it;s really important that people understand this before they start taking powerful hormones or undergoing radical surgery

We notice smells unlike our own; that’s why some Japanese think Europeans smell of dairy products

This is a 70s/80s misconception that absolutely no one in Japan mentions or talks about these days, because no one actually thinks it.

Anyway. Men and women do, to me, smell different. I'm asexual, so to me man or woman scent just doesn't attract me at all - but I do find "male scent" far less desirable, but more noticeable, than female smell.

But anyway. Penis = yuck for some. No amount of forcing will ever change that.

So when someone tells me I should train myself to overcome my body's exclusive reactions to women - what's in that for me? Nothing. Except being a Good Girl. To a patriarchal group. Who see me and my body as there only to provide men with what they need and require me to put them first in all things. And sex is framed as something that men get to enjoy and where men get to have their choices and feelings and needs and desires respected and centred - but women don't.

This, fucking THIS!

It all goes back to this idea that women only ever have sex to please men doesn't it?

I know it's a different topic, but in Love Island at the moment there is a young woman in there who is very open about sex and talks about enjoying sex, and how the some of the men in there make her feel. Rather than just trying to be sexy for them. The men in the house, and wider society watching it actually, don't know what to make of her, because we are not that used to seeing women who want to be sexy for themselves and think about themselves in a sexual context outside of how they are going to please the man they are with.

That is a great question you have asked there: what's in that for me?

Its a kind of 21st century get thee to a nunnery, isn't it? Thou shalt abandon sinful focus upon lust and sexual pleasure and instead embrace a life of service, self sacrifice and poverty of experience and selfish desire while focused upon a greater (nameless and intangible and not for you in this life) reward.

But only some people have to be nuns. Mostly the boring ones with vaginas. Others get to have their wishes and feelings and desires and preferences recognised and supported and facilitated, and are nurtured to become their authentic selves and live their best lives and other psycho babble wankery.

Another question: does everyone get to choose whether they're a nun servicer or one of the served? Is that a 'lifestyle choice' for everyone equally? What separates the servant from the served, exactly? Because I'm pretty sure the servant name is 'c*s' and they have vaginas.

Sorry, avoiding sinful desires, obvs. No sinful desiring in the nunnery thank you. Step away from Mr Elba.

Maura is the one in loveisland talking a lot about sex.

I dont consider it good. She is highly objectifying of men, she talks of them as body parts, she is actively predatory (although not sure that actually translates from male to female, as its not as intimidating possibly, still awkward and ignoring the actual responses?).

If a man was behaving in this way, it would be all those things.

although not sure that actually translates from male to female, as its not as intimidating possibly, still awkward and ignoring the actual responses?

Side note: yes, men actually do very much feel intimidated by sexually predatory women. Less so, perhaps, than a woman clearly physically weaker than the bloke not accepting no for an answer. And obviously without a few millenia of societal baggage.

This is not to say "what about the poor menz" at all - but they do feel insecure, intimidated and helpless when exposed to predatory behaviour, too.

I've actually "rescued" a male colleague out of the men's at a club before on account of him having no idea how to react to repeatedly having his bum pinched by the same, very persistent drunk woman.

This is a 70s/80s misconception that absolutely no one in Japan mentions or talks about these days

I was told I smelled like sugar and once heard from another Japanese friend that Koreans smell like kimchi 🤷‍♀️

My opinion is fairly in line with most posters here. I wouldn't. I'm a straight female and I'm attracted to straight, biological men.

When I've looked for a partner I've obviously wanted to have a good connection with them and be able to enjoy their company. But I've also been looking for sexual attraction and compatibility, a relationship with a view to having children, and physical attraction. If I was looking based on just the emotional side of things (seeing as a trans man could not offer me children, sexual compatibility or physical attraction), what you've got there in the end is a friend. I need the whole package to consider you as a romantic partner.

I refuse to date anyone who doesn't offer me these things which I consider an essential.

I can sort of understand the thinking of some trans people in that they don't understand why people cannot see them as they see themselves- exclusively female/male, etc. But I think they need to realise that it isn't just a matter of having (for example) male looking body parts, a male sounding voice, a male's appearance. Other factors come into play and they simply aren't present in trans people, no matter the level of surgery- eg a fully functioning male reproductive system.

I do often think of the hypocrisy that these individuals have, complaining that straight women won't date them. I wonder how many people they haven't dated due to appearance, intelligence, political views, etc.

I'll probably get deleted for this but fuck it.
I am bisexual, but I am not sexually attracted to trans people either pre or post op. It's the "Uncanny Valley" that is not quite right.
There are trans people who I have a huge amount of respect for but I would not want to go to bed with.

The fact is, the number of people we are actually attracted is tiny anyway.

We don’t need a reason not to be attracted to someone, we need a damn good reason to be attracted to them.

A gay friend of mine told me yesterday he is not dating anyone with a vagina calling themselves a man.........ever. and neither is any gay friend of his. He was quite adamant about it.

There is alot of AGP frustration.
They find themselves turned on at a porn version of themselves

• the whole fishnets draped on the sofa with the high heels on.

They have such little respect for lesbians that they don't realise that is not a look lesbians tend to go for (though of course lesbians are not a hive mind). They are recreating a 'lesbian' based on their online viewing habits. How/why they think this image in anyway makes them appealing to lesbians is a problem. The resentment that comes when lesbians say no opened my eyes. What I don't understand is so many people defending them and taking the chance to critisise lesbians over this.

Gay men do seem to have a fear of the girlybits. Funny that. Lesbians are scared of the willy (on the whole).

Another thing pissing me off about men demanding lesbians "get over" our lesbian feelings about penises is, they've clearly had no appreciation all this time of how fucking polite we've been in just saying we're not into penis.

Most people, even most men, used to know to leave it at that. Now it's - "But what if I don't want to use it?" "But what if it's a feminine penis?", "But what if they haven't got a penis?" and "But you use a dildo!" [Spoiler: No, I don't, you intrusive, porn-soaked ignoramus]

And now they're having Le Big Sad because they're learning its not just about penis; We don't find anything sexually desirable about the rest of them either. "Waaah You're so MEAN to say that. We're all going to die now"... After nagging us to explain why we still don't want sex with them.

Like, ffs, we weren't the ones insisting on having this conversation. We didn't ask you to back us into this corner. We were content to leave it at "No thanks" or "No thanks; I'm a lesbian".

So, hurty feelz? Tough luck, big guy.

Blunt and yet elegantly put, OneEndedStick. Some men are such sexual dunces. It's perfectly obvious to me that lesbians love female bodies in the same way that I love male ones. Even disregarding genitals (which is bizarre anyway) a lesbian will not be attracted to male secondary sex characteristics. Fools.

Call it what you want. It’s still a willy.

It's perfectly obvious to me that lesbians love female bodies in the same way that I love male ones.

Well, it should be to anyone with half a brain.

The trouble with these porn addled males is that they don't see us as human. They see us as wank receptacles in their fantasies. The idea that there might be any thought process going on in our heads (other than the ones they project from their "ooh, big boy, give it to me harder" mental soundtracks from porn) is just totally alien to them.

In their heads women don't have sexual desires of our own, we are merely the objects of their sexual desires.

I just can't keep a straight face at the phrase "female penis"