Caster Semanya statement and transwoman in sport

[Binglebong]

This is NOT about CS but about a statement made by the IAAF with regard to her. I hope that it can be used with regards to the issue of transwomen competing against women in sport. In fact, I don't see how it could be otherwise given they have banned CS.

"The IAAF considers that the DSD regulations are a necessary, reasonable and proportionate means of protecting fair and meaningful competition in elite female athletics, and the Cas agreed."

It's the bit protecting fair and meaningful competition in elite female athletics that is particularly relevant, they obviously do recognise there is a fairness issue with the different bodies that males and females have.

I would be really interested to hear people's thoughts.

I read something the other day which said she can conceive and carry a child so to me, she's a woman. That Phelps guy has a condition where his body doesn't produce much lactic acid. In fact only half of that of the average person. People called him "lucky". There's also a white athlete who has some hormonal imbalance and isn't bothered by anyone about it.

Pages 72-73 have the IAAF’s opinion on 5ARD.

I read something the other day which said she can conceive and carry a child so to me, she's a woman.

With no female reproductive organs? How do you think that would be possible?

As I've said, it seems pretty clear that she has a DSD which has given her a largely female appearance. Most DSDs of that type would make her insensitive to "male hormones", so many of the concerns here don't arise.

The ruling relates to XY DSD athletes who are androgen sensitive. This includes Caster.

You are referring to CAIS; XY athletes competing as women are exempt because they are not androgen sensitive. This is not Caster because if it was the elevated testosterone would not need to be lowered.

I’m not sure if you’re being deliberately disingenuous in fixating on the single XY DSD that is exempt from the testosterone ruling or whether you’ve not read the ruling and are just making up things to fit your own narrative.

I read something the other day which said she can conceive and carry a child so to me, she's a woman.

What the hell are you talking about? Caster has no female organs, it’s literally impossible. Did you not read the ruling? Fgs

I read something the other day which said she can conceive and carry a child so to me, she's a woman

Did you read this in Donald Trump’s Big Book of Biological Fake News?

I find it really irritating to have people on this thread dispute facts that have been known for some time- by Caster for at least 10 years.

Caster is not a woman with a medical condition. We are aware of exactly what condition they have. They are not female. These are facts.

What I read said that the only Male trait that was shown was the increase in testosterone and there has been no comment or confirmation on any other physical traits. Although internal testis are a source of testosterone in people with DSD, there is no conformation that this is the source in CS and there can be other sources too.

Actually the article was quite anti her competing but obviously they had to be factual so they had to say what was and what wasn't confirmed.

which has given her a largely female appearance

No it hasn’t. Elaborate on what you think gives her a ‘female appearance’.

The ruling relates to XY DSD athletes who are androgen sensitive.

For those insisting we don’t know about physical traits, all the details etc do any of you actually understand what the above means?? At all??

Greeve read the ruling. All the “confirmation” you’re seeking is in there.

The whole Caster situation is a massive case study in just how much the general public can be hoodwinked when vested organisations, individuals and the MSM collude to push a particular narrative. In this particular case the motive for that is money and glory.

I'm getting confused. Yes admittedly I mainly scanned the pages a pp listed.

It says that previous was found "to be discriminatory". So that's not good!

So what is the end result? In plain speak? Are we any further forward?

A pp:

"it seems pretty clear that she"

I'm sorry but I don't find it clear.
The document isn't clear on its conclusions.

And I can't find the concrete evidence CS herself, that says
CS is definitely this, or that. With photographs/medical evidence to back it up.

Mostly it's just speculation and heresay.

There are 2 different issues here. The court case / document on CS is long and complex.

And isn't clear, on CS specifically .

And what about the bigger picture, not just CS, but the rules, re other athletes?

Boom it’s rife on other threads about Caster and people on this thread are refusing to use the female pronoun, using ‘them’ instead.

Oh come on, nobody on this thread or any others is calling her a he. And if they want to call a biological male them or they on an anonymous internet forum and not to her face, then so be it, that is biological fact.

She categorically is biologically male with XY chromosomes, with no ovaries or uterus (carry a baby? fgs!). She categorically did go through some form of male puberty, as can be seen from her published natural testosterone levels, which medically can only have come from secondary sexual tissues post puberty. The only other sources of testosterone in an XY human are from the brain or a tumour and neither would allow for anything like approcaching natural male testosterone levels, which is what CS has. Trying to pretend she has the one DSD, out of many, where it could be argued that a genetic XY person had not in any way benefitted of geen influenced by the male hormone testosterone (CAIS) si factually wrong. She is genetically male with a body that responds to near male levels of testosterone (and certainly way, way higher that the highest naturally occurring levels in any XX woman, even the butchest of butch), as is a feature of the DSD she has - 5 alpha reductase defficiency.

People around her, her advisors, the IAAF and herself have also categorically known that since at least 2008, when she would have been 18/19, and the suspicion, at least, would have been there since puberty by 15/16.

And I can't find the concrete evidence CS herself, that says
CS is definitely this, or that. With photographs/medical evidence to back it up.

Nobody needs photographs! The ruling refers to what grounds Caster appealed on and they could only do that if they had the condition outlined in the ruling. So it is clear.

People around her, her advisors, the IAAF and herself have also categorically known that since at least 2008, when she would have been 18/19, and the suspicion, at least, would have been there since puberty by 15/16.

^ this is important

“The DSD covered by the Regulations are limited to athletes with ’46 XY DSD’ – i.e. conditions where the affected individual has XY chromosomes.” If she wasn’t XY, the IAAF’s regulations wouldn’t apply to her and she’d have no reason to challenge them.

Where does it talk specifically about her body though? Rather than the spectrum of what can be found with this condition?

The document isn't clear on its conclusions

Then you haven’t read it properly or you can’t comprehend it properly.

Read page 123, section C onwards entitled:

The factual and scientific issues in this case

Where does it talk specifically about her body though? Rather than the spectrum of what can be found with this condition?

What are you asking here? I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Do you not understand the specifics and what they mean? I highlighted earlier the relevant point.

or you can’t comprehend it properly.

I don’t want to be rude, but it is clear some posters here don’t understand the specific condition and what it actually means, how it affects puberty and therefore the body. Go and read up.

Yes but it doesn't confirm what she has. It's guesses based on the process of proceedings. From my understanding, the public don't have this information so we are basically speculating based on what we know about related conditions. Like whether she is XY or XX

It really couldn’t be clearer. I presume people are trolling now, no one could be this obtuse.