Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

It's a shame (and (deliberately?) confusing) that transman is already taken ...

Yes-who assigned these labels? Why do we have to bend to them?

Totally agree.

I use 'male transitioners' since the law is that if a GRC does not exist the person concerned must be compared with the sex they are transitioning from and not the sex they wish to transition to.

Since I can never know if a GRC exists, I have to assume that it does not.

So far so good.

"who assigned these labels? Why do we have to bend to them?"

I am quite new to this, and I also would like an answer to this very important question!

Also I read that they object to "transwoman" and insist on a space in between i.e. "trans woman".

It's so hard, they make it so hard, one is scared to post anything for fear of offending, getting banned, or hearing Mr Plod knock at the door.

I agree also.

Not being able to use that banned three word term makes it much harder to discuss things.

I do like Jacky's term male transitioner though.

I know that this is a delicate subject, but in real life if I am referring to a transwoman I always add 'so, born male' for absolute clarity in a conversation with someone who is not up to speed. I doubt that would be deemed acceptable here, though. (Another reason why real life conversations are vital)

It does cause a lot of confusion. I’m used to it now but at first I couldn’t get to whetherthe person in question was a man or a woman. I imagine in a few years it will be a case of everyone knowing what it means and the confusion being cleared up asa result.

Not sure I understand. What’s wrong with trans woman?

I've been using "male who identifies as trans" for weeks now, both in writing and speaking and this has the advantage that it avoids any and all confusion because the leading word is of course the most important.

@mnhq
Quite. The term transwoman is frequently misunderstood to means a female person who identifies as the opposite sex.

Honestly, for the sake of clarity and truthful communication can't we at use the terms "male person" in relation to male people?

I think a lot of people would assume that trans woman is a woman who is transitioning to become a man.
Or they would think that it is someone like Jan Morris rather than Karen White.

bert why should the word woman, when prefixed with trans, include Male bodied people? It is messing with peoples understanding of the truth.

I’m pretty sure anyone posting on the feminist boards knows quite clearly what a transwoman is, since there’s probably a minimum of one post a day about them.

Bertrand it is argued ( and I accept this ) that by putting a space between trans and women it is implying that trans is a adjective adding detail about the women ( tall woman, academic woman) which then is seen as accepting that the person is foremost a woman.

I've been using "male who identifies as trans" for weeks now
Mumsnet have banned people for that. Or, well, they culled many brilliant feminists for using the term "trans identified male" during their cull of feminists.

bert why should the word woman, when prefixed with trans, include Male bodied people? It is messing with peoples understanding of the truth.

I agree. And isn't it convenient...

I’m pretty sure anyone posting on the feminist boards knows quite clearly what a transwoman is, since there’s probably a minimum of one post a day about them.

Just the one?

It's been my experience too that the terms 'trans man' and 'trans woman' are confusing. Talking to various family and friends who haven't looked into it, some assume that 'trans men' are male people who want to be treated as women and 'trans women' are female people who want to be treated as men.
I think gender identity vs sex may be the single most frustrating political issue, because the issue is whether we should be able to clearly and accurately describe reality, and to explain why we need to be able to do this, we need to do the thing we're being told we shouldn't do - clearly and accurately describe reality. It's like someone saying 'Arguing is bad and should be banned', and when someone argues against this the first person goes 'Aaaaagh you're arguing! Arguing is bad!'.

WHeras transwomen is to women what women is to men. ( we don’t say wo man) wo is not an adjective, the words imply something fundamentally different

People who are new to the subject (i.e. virtually all of the general public) assume that a transwoman is either a female who wants to be a man or a man who has surgery. They are always amazed to learn the truth that a transwoman is in the majority of cases an intact Male who intends to stay that way. They are incredulous and think I'm mistaken. Then they are shocked. Then not happy at all. TRAs needed to keep it all QT. Failing that just force legislation through.

Simply put I use trans identified male/man or female/woman as I'm referring to a a biological sex of a person who identifies as transgender.

Bertrand
I don't think "trans" is actually in the OED.
Can anyone confirm?
I know transwoman and transman are, which are nouns to describe people who have changed sex, but "trans" as an adjective to describe a woman or man as far as I know does not exist?

I do like Jacky's term male transitioner though.

Thank you. It is the only realistic term permissible if one adheres to UK law as far as I interpret it, as I explained in my original post.