Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

barelove
No worries, atleast I can cross ‘man’ of my FWR bingo card for tonight. Just waiting for TRA and handmaiden.

While we’re at it, could you come over and tell my son I’m a man? I’ve been trying to get him off breastfeeding for what feels like forever but he isn’t having it. He might listen to you?

Earlywalker, I’m not sure if you’re aware that not putting a space between trans and woman, is considered ‘transphobic’ in Twatter land? Therefore, the word transwoman is considered unacceptable by males who identify as trans.

Earlywalker you've decribed a man (adult human male) who "emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex (female)
Since humans are mammals & sex a matter of biology determined at the point of conception then how a person feels makes no difference to what is material reality which is that a male cannot & does not ever belong to the opposite sex.

why should the word woman, when prefixed with trans, include Male bodied people? It is messing with peoples understanding of the truth

They are two different words with two different meanings. Why is ‘man’ prefixed with ‘wo’ does that make us a subset of men? No. Transwoman identifies the desired sex is woman, transman identifies the desired sex is Male. The definition is quite clear.

R0wantrees I have not once debated that humans can change sex on this thread. The definition of transwoman does not state that they become woman, merely that they emotionally and psychologically feel they are a woman. As you agree that it does not say they become a woman , why would you refuse to use the term?

Unfortunately Earlywalker, all the support you think you’re giving trans people, is not enough. You’re just not quite ‘woke’ enough as the language you’re using is not ‘inclusive’ enough. Try going onto Twitter and saying transwomen are transwomen or even suggesting that they started as men. You will be verbally slaughtered for using ‘transphobic’ language.

S1naidSucks I’m not on Twitter. I’m not too bothered if I’m considered transphobic by them though.
The average keyboard warrior does not speak for an entire population.

merely that they emotionally and psychologically feel they are a woman

Which as you acknowledge they aren't a woman then compelling language for such a state is not entirely logical.

But this thread is relating to its use on MN, and given the multiple daily posts on transgender people I’m pretty sure everyone here is clued up.

On the feminism board, yes, mostly, but on general in MN it can have the same “hang on, do you mean a woman who feels like a man or...?” response as it gets in the real world.

I’m maxi BTW. Ive just namechanged. Sorry for confusion.

While we’re at it, could you come over and tell my son I’m a man? I’ve been trying to get him off breastfeeding for what feels like forever but he isn’t having it. He might listen to you?

Hilarious! I'd do no such thing though. Big supporter of allowing babies to self wean so I'll keep my trap shut!

Apologies for the presumption. I just find it so hard to believe that women would not get the damage that is being done to women and children by allowing the misappropriation of the word Women by using it (even joined with 'trans') to refer to a male bodied person.

While we’re at it, could you come over and tell my son I’m a man? I’ve been trying to get him off breastfeeding for what feels like forever but he isn’t having it.

How awfully ‘transphobic’ and exclusionary. Do you not understand that the ‘correct’ term is chestfeeding. ‘Men’ can give birth and ‘chestfeed’ too, you know. I’m so disappointed in you, Earlywalker.

I just find it so hard to believe that women would not get the damage that is being done to women and children by allowing the misappropriation of the word Women by using it (even joined with 'trans') to refer to a male bodied person.
This with knobs on.

For the knobs.
.

Always picking the big issues to wade in on. Why won't those spiteful women use the nice words for the poor men with the sad feelings?

For anyone who gives a shit at this stage, Barracker's post about pronouns and Rohypnol will be very instructive as to why neither feminine pronouns, nor any configuration of word for woman, are an especially wise thing to feel any compulsion to use about a man. I don't have the link to hand, but it's a very worthwhile read for anyone still so wedded to female socialization to be nice and attempt to press other women to be nice that they think that this is the hill they want to die on given the extremely gross shit going on at the NSPCC and other places right now...

here you go Floral & I wholeheartedly agree

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

I'm going with non cis woman .That satisfies the demand to be called a woman and is crystal clear.
I am just 'woman',I don't need the cis bit as it is obvious I am a natal woman,since most natal women are not pert at my age.

It’s not ‘nice words for the men’ It’s the definition.

There are times were trans rights and issues directly conflict with woman and especially the oppression of woman. When you turn every little thing into a huge deal, the actual big deals get forgotten about.

As you say, TRAs think everything is ‘transphobic’, breastfeeding, woman, transwoman, pregnancy, mothers etc etc. And then we almost forget that actually, trans people do face real transphobia such as difficulty with jobs, oppression, actual violence and hate. TRAs have stopped our focus on that and turned the word ‘transphobia’ into a running joke for GC woman.

As woman, we obviously need to stand up and protect our daughters and sisters from anything which may further oppress them. When you get worked up over small things like using a dictionary definition, the issues of sport, predators, safeguarding get sidelined because ‘those feminists have a problem with everything we are and do’

And when you refuse to use a term which makes a distinction from woman, is a dictionary definition and instead want to use a term which has been said to be offensive by the trans community - it doesn’t appear like it’s in the interest of woman.

BluebonicPlague
People have called me men many times on here and MN has always deleted it. I’ve been here since way before I posted about trans issues. Since my first pregnancy and although at first it was hilarious that every time a different opinion was presented outside of the comfort of your echo chamber you all cried ‘man’ I now just find it very embarrassing for you. It always comes out when the questions get difficult too.

Anyway, good luck with the quest. There’s no way MNHQ will grant it, given you can’t even really explain why ‘transwoman’ is so offensive in response to my points but let’s see.

I read the post about rohypnol. Interesting.

My issue is not that I am so desperate to be kind or whatever rosy words you all use. It is that I have the ability to see what is important and what is not. Rather than see one issue as bad bad bad and run with it as far as I can go, ignoring all logic or reasoning because ‘it’s all bad’

Night folks.

Earlywalker, this link has been posted on this thread previously. One key sentence is:

" Forcing our brains to ignore the evidence of our eyes, to ignore a conflict between what we see and know to be true, and what we are expected to say, affects us."

Reading this article put the issues into perspective. Perhaps it may help you understand.

uncommongroundmedia.com/banned-from-medium-pronouns-are-rohypnol/

Well said PurpleCrowbar

This is so tiresome.

Female is not a feeling, it is a biological state. I don't know what these male people are feeling, but it cannot be female. Being a male transperson presenting in a feminine manner is a male feeling it is a male experience
Nothing to do with women - unless you adhere to the sexist belief that woman = feminine stereotypes...

There is no language that is a good enough compromise for TRAs. Even complete capitulation isn't good enough, constant violation and degradation is the goal.

Didn't take long for women who won't comply with male demands to be called spiteful

ALittleBitOfVitrol well said

For those drive by posters that say what is wrong with the term 'transwoman' it obscures facts and we don't like it. That should be enough if our opinion mattered as much as men's

Didn't take long for women who won't comply with male demands to be called spiteful

A few years ago I was all live and let live, what harm can it do to call him a woman if that's what he wants etc. But the entitled behaviour of male bodied people and their trampling over my rights, my boundaries, my daughter's boundaries, other women's boundaries etc has left a bitter taste in my mouth. I keep reading that most transwomen aren't like this and all they want is to live a quiet life without anyone knowing that they were actually born male. But I haven't yet met one who is actually like that. Only the bully type. So if me refusing to capitulate hurts their feelings I really don't care. In fact I'm quite pleased. Because there's no evidence of this particular group of people having any concerns for my feelings. I'd say deliberately taking away from women that which is rightfully theirs (privacy, sporting achievement, positions in 'women in business' organisations etc) is about as spiteful as it gets.

as always when these threads come up, use whatever term you want to, it's up to you what you use. you have the right to say what you want. if this site or any other decide that what you say is not exceptable on there forum then it and eventually you will be removed, that is there right and a direct consequence of your choice of language. you can then go and find a forum that allows the use of the language you wish to use.

"Transsexual male" a possibility?

"Transwoman" contains the word "woman" which they took without asking, It's confusing, most ppl think either it refers to a born woman with gender dysphoria or it refers to a born man who has had 100% body surgery to make them look as though they're a woman. They certainly don't think of Danielle Muscato or Alex Drummond etc.

The trans lobby and all their allies are trying to distort the language and very thinking about any issue to do with women. Offering "transwoman" is giving an inch, but we know they want that mile. They won't be happy untill "woman" is obliterated in meaning and every issue related to women is obscured, fragmening us into "cervix-havers" or "menstruates" or "chest feeders" which virtually all women find at the very least strange, confusing, or horribly offensive, all because THEY are refusing to use the word Woman for US. THEY are also refusing to allow us to use woman for ourselves!

I think most of us have had enough. It's been a one way street of giving and making consessions for too long. Now we see what's happening. And we are saying no.