Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

I was under the impression that the words were fine, it’s the acronym that isn’t?

It’s annoying to type out every time, but worth it to preserve accuracy whilst sticking to the talk guidelines.

I refuse to say "transwoman". They aren't women and I refuse to lie.

I'd like to know what could actually happen to mumsnet if they relaxed their policing guidelines. I mean, if they chose to go along with the law, rather than bullies recommendations what would be the real consequences other than making all their loyal contributors happy and to piss off a few agps?

Can you elaborate? No.

That’s a shame, I’d have thought you’d be able to back up your thoughts if you genuinely believed you were correct.

I refuse to say "transwoman". They aren't women and I refuse to lie
Transwoman and woman are two different words, two different nouns with two different meanings. Considering the FWR boards are filled of people asking for dictionary definitions, you don’t seem very clued up on them.

That’s a shame, I’d have thought you’d be able to back up your thoughts if you genuinely believed you were correct.

Always interesting to observe response to a woman saying no...

I’d have thought you’d be able to back up your thoughts if you genuinely believed you were correct.

What makes you think I can't?

No is a complete sentence.

No.

See?

Don't ask again: it's unwanted.

Transwoman - noun
a male-to-female transsexual

Transsexual - noun
a person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex

Using This word somehow puts woman last? Because This is what feminism is about, woman, right? Yet nobody has told me why using this word is so damaging to woman?

A thread of 105 posts mainly saying that they will not use this word, with not one logical explanation as to why. So yes, I do believe it is out of spite.

This is not about the oppression of woman and I would be embarrassed posting as you have.

Earlywalker I dont think women care much what you believe.

Calling someone a transwoman at their request doesn’t harm anyone.

It deceives people and obscures the truth.

I can understand why you may have a problem calling them a woman. But to have an issue with the term ‘transwoman’ is taking it too far now.

It implies that the person referred to is a type of woman, when they are not.

If you choose to be active within a debate and pose strong opinions. Including telling me to fuck off in her post, yes I would expect her to be able to back up her opinions rather than saying ‘no’.

Interesting to see her response to a woman questioning her. I believe it started with ‘do fuck off dear’ which is a bit more aggressive than asking her to back up opinions imo.

I was very careful in my previous post to write ungrammatically in order to avoid deletion through being factual.

I was under the impression that the words were fine, it’s the acronym that isn’t?

It's all angels dancing on the head of a pin.

Tiresome but, since the rules aren't going to change any time soon, generally workable.

I'd like to know what could actually happen to mumsnet if they relaxed their policing guidelines. I mean, if they chose to go along with the law, rather than bullies recommendations what would be the real consequences other than making all their loyal contributors happy and to piss off a few agps?

Its an interesting question

I think there would definitely be some rage & some relief

It implies that the person referred to is a type of woman, when they are not.

By definition it means A person (Male) who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex (female).

By definition it means A person (Male) who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex (female). = not a woman

Interesting to see her response to a woman questioning her

Oh, yes it would also be interesting to see how Lang might refer to a Woman questioning her too I suppose.

A thread of 105 posts mainly saying that they will not use this word, with not one logical explanation as to why

I think there would definitely be some rage & some relief

Perhaps MNHQ can't afford several hundred new moderators to fend off all the monitor reports?!

I'm not prepared to use 'transwomen' any more, actually.

Men who wish to do - well, whatever they want to do, really - do not become women.

Gentlemen for whom gender dysphoria is an issue are welcome to come up with their own language.

But woman/women is not up for colonising, & no, they don't get to prefix us.

Respond! not refer. Doh!

That's what I get for trying to be clever

That’s what I’ve said this whole time R0wantrees that transwoman, by definition does not mean woman.

barelove are you implying I’m not a woman? Why? Because woman aren’t allowed a different opinion to you? That’s a very Male thing to say, don’t you think?

That’s a very Male thing to say, don’t you think

Nope, I'd say it was a very perceptive thing to say.

I think early walker has missed all the posts about transwoman being a confusing term to most people as they quite rationally think, oh theyre a woman who has gender identity issues. Not, oh they're a man who has gender identity issues. Because most people base their understanding of reality on what's actually real, rather than what's imagined. I suppose some people really believe Johnny Depp is a pirate, but...
Also men identifying as women don't add to the diversity of women, they add to the diversity of men. Simples.
I also would call someone their chosen name and back in the 90s before this all became a political weapon, I'd have happily said 'she' in a friendly, accomodating way. But now, I think you kind of have to help untangle things as much as possible and keep it real.

ILoveMaxiBondi
I agree in principle with what you said, that some people outside of MN may not understand it. But this thread is relating to its use on MN, and given the multiple daily posts on transgender people I’m pretty sure everyone here is clued up.

A thread of 105 posts mainly saying that they will not use this word, with not one logical explanation as to why. So yes, I do believe it is out of spite

Ahem

happydappy2 Fri 14-Jun-19 18:44:33
bert why should the word woman, when prefixed with trans, include Male bodied people? It is messing with peoples understanding of the truth

First page mate