Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

This whole thread is about disregarding people's identities. The trans women I know support women and are horrified by the abuse of women around the world. It seems that the rumours I've heard about this forum being more about attacking a minority rather than fighting againt the oppression of women are true. I'll leave you to your hate

Thanks for stopping by, ButterflyT

earlywalker apologies for my grammatical error. A typo. But pls remember women don’t wish to be known as women, we are women.

I don't have a problem with using the term transwoman, but with the clarification that TransposersArePosers mentions, for clarity. I also don't have an issue with calling someone she if that's what they would like to be called - I'm happy to given an individual whatever label they want. But TW are not W and males should not be allowed in women's spaces.

Wait, are we being accused of being hateful because we didn’t agree with everything Butterfly has said..

That ain’t no Butterfly ladies.

earlywalker apologies for my grammatical error. A typo. But pls remember women don’t wish to be known as women, we are women.

Transwoman don’t wish to be known as transwoman, they are transwoman.
As for your ‘grammatical error’, that’s fine, I have no need to feel validated by an internet stranger. Your opinion on me means absolutely nothing.

In real life I explain it as "trans identifying male person" ie someone born male who wants to identify as the opposite sex.

I think it makes it less confusing. When people I've spoken to hear "transwoman" they usually think it's a girl who wants to be a boy.

Trans women aren't usurping womanhood, they're adding to the diversity of it.
By including men?

Women aren't being mean and nasty, they share a common biology that no man can ever be included in. We have the right to define ourselves without having to include people who are not part of that biological group.

Biology isn't an identity that can change, it is a provable fact.

I thought you'd gone Butterfly and we're leaving is to "our hate".

Funny it was only when a number of us politely disagreed with you that you decided we were spouting "hate".

Off you pop.

Who are we? Women. I have absolutely no difficulty in defining who belongs to womanhood. Every woman's experience is different, sure, but none of our experiences involve being a man.

This all the way.

Sorry that's some bad spelling and grammar. Time for bed. Will see if the weekend mods can clarify what it is we are allowed to say.

There is no justification for refusing to use it apart from spite.

ODFOD

I don't use it because feminism. That thing where you put women first. Weird, I know.

I've been going with 'male who feels compelled to comply with feminine stereotypes of appearance'. it's wordy but seems accurate to me. I might go with who identifies as trans as it's a bit snappier

Talking past all the nonsense...

Look. MNHQ isn't going to change the Extra Special Rules for FWR. They're not going to let us use that acronym.

It is what it is.

I can't be forced to use a word pertaining to my sex for people not of my sex, however. I will continue with workarounds.

There is no justification for refusing to use it

There is, it’s very clear the word isn’t understood by a huge amount of people. On MN it isn’t understood but out in the real world it isn’t. There is lots of confusion about what the word refers to and so requires further clarification.

I don't use it because feminism. That thing where you put women first. Weird, I know

Can you elaborate? I can understand not wanting to use woman. How does transwoman upset your feminism and put woman last? Two different nouns. Two different meanings.

Sorry, “on MN feminism board it is”

I don't agree. Trans women aren't usurping womanhood, they're adding to the diversity of it. There isn't a single experience but there is a common experience of repression across culture, race and gender identity. Who are we to define who belongs to womanhood when every woman's experience is different to our own

ButterflyT
Many people new to the discussion find this thread useful

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Trans women aren't usurping womanhood, they're adding to the diversity of it.

Eh? What does that even mean?

Women are all different and so are already diverse as a group. Why do they need something added to this?

May 2018 relevent thread:

Op leyat wrote:

"Trans Media Watch has written to parliament saying 'trans identified male' can be considered as hate speech, and that Mumsnet users referring to penises are being transphobic.

Trans Media Watch appears to want the term 'trans identified male', or indeed referring to them as 'men' to be understood as hate speech and deems Mumsnet 'of particular concern'. This really has to be read to be believed; here is their written submission to the Home Affairs Committee: data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/home-affairs-committee/hate-crime-and-its-violent-consequences/written/82105.pdf. It is quite the collection of lies and misrepresentations designed to completely malign women, the only good thing about it is that it is so obviously one-sided that most rational people would see that.

Worth sharing this article on how the committee has been approaching the matter, and how at least some MP's want women silenced: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Keep resisting!"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3238618-Trans-Media-Watch-has-written-to-parliament-saying-trans-identified-male-can-be-considered-as-hate-speech-and-that-Mumsnet-users-referring-to-penises-are-being-transphobic

*Look. MNHQ isn't going to change the Extra Special Rules for FWR. They're not going to let us use that acronym.

It is what it is.*

Sadly I suspect you are correct Lang.

Transwoman don’t wish to be known as transwoman, they are transwoman.

Blimey! You’d better be careful, that could be considered hate speech. Have you been offline for the last year? The mantra is TWAW, or are you actually suggesting that they aren’t actually women? Bravo. You’re getting there. shifts over and pats bench on the rather crowded peak

Can you elaborate?

No.