Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

Please don’t tell me you are a GC poster that doesn’t know the difference between gender and sex?

Let's pretend I don't. Please explain to me in simple terms how you change your gender.

I’ve said for a while that this seems to be moving more and more away from protecting woman’s rights and closer to actually just wanting to alienate transpeople further. Masks are slipping

Same, and it's interesting to see more people are seeing it too - agree with what you just said and especially the last bit. Certain threads make it slip a bit where it isn't just concern and safety.

The only people ‘preventing discussion’ are those dismissing people with opposing views by telling them they shouldn’t be here, they are men, they’re making things worse and so on.

Again, read the legislation

I have. As far as I can see the process is not explained?

Before we run out of time.....thanks again to all contributors, whatever sex you are. Its been illuminating for us all!

Right, how fucking dare you? I for one am not a male (check my posting history if you don't believe me)

@SuePerbly exactly!! But apparently it never happens to some on this thread (like said earlier even though we were saying it does)
Glad you can see it too now, it's amazing you get used to it lol.

but you sure are showing male pattern rage
Funny how it's male pattern rage when you don't agree but it's women aren't meant to be nice when you do

Close

Let's try another way.

I, ItsAllGoingToBeFine, propose to remove my breasts to become a man.

There. By that legislation I am now protected under the category of gender reassignment.

I have. As far as I can see the process is not explained?

That's a shame that you can't see it. It's very clearly explained.

Close

You're wishing it away, aren't you

There. By that legislation I am now protected under the category of gender reassignment.

If you say so.

*I’ve said for a while that this seems to be moving more and more away from protecting woman’s rights and closer to actually just wanting to alienate transpeople further.

Masks are slipping*

Aren't they just? I will defend my daughters right to women only spaces to the end. And for a third space for trans people too. I will not defend the utter stupidity of an echo chamber of people too dense to know that picking the wrong battle, at the wrong time (when society and the dictionary and legislation have happily adopted the terms trans man/woman) will lose the entire bloody war.

It isn't Turkey's voting for Xmas to want to educate people as to what the trans terms mean. It is living in the real world, where we are in battle with a group who thrive on feeling marginalised and some people want to give them more of a reason to do so, by refusing to adopt the language they have chosen to define themselves.

Noone has a melt down when someone describes themselves as pan sexual as opposed to bi. We educate ourselves and each other as to what it means. And so with this. Then the real battles for women's spaces can be paid attention to.

A trans woman in a female space does sound different to an intact male in a female space. But as those are the terms already in use, you can fight against them or explain, so everyone realises that the two things may in fact be the same.

important & insightful article by specialist coercive control organisation

"Trolling and Online Abuse - Is there a difference? "

concludes:
Mobbing campaigns rely heavily on the reluctance of bystanders to intervene which only adds to the distress caused to the targeted individual.

One of the main reasons bystanders do nothing is because they are simply not aware of how mobbing campaigns operate.
The ringleaders behind the mobbing campaigns are very secretive.

They would never admit what they are doing. They play the “I've done nothing, it’s someone else “ card.
Their aims are:
*Character assassination

• To ensure others distance themselves from the targeted individual.
• Recruit others to abuse on their behalf ( #abusebyproxy) using information with a special significance aimed at the targeted individual, knowing that the bespoke targeting will cause immense distress.
• Inciting others to mock, goad, provoke the target into responding. Ringleaders will build up their network of proxies to perpetuate the falsehood that the targeted individual is the problem. It allows them to retire* some of the original proxies who are then replaced with new proxies to keep the mobbing sustained & the abuse hidden. The reason is to more effectively turn the tables and direct the abuse away from the mobbing campaign and onto the target whilst giving the impression the target is belligerent and antagonises others. Even better if the mobbing campaign has successfully provoked a reaction. They will use that reaction to make their point that the target is THE problem, the target is abusive, harassing, stalking etc etc. The ringleader relies on the knowledge that the target is hyper vigilant and will be aware of a smear campaign specifically targeted towards them. BUT Because of the bespoke nature of the abuse, not everyone will be privy to the triggers and so will be oblivious to what is going on.

The natural reaction for a victim of #mobbing is to highlight what is going on &the common response of those around the victim is disbelief.
So, what often happens is that victim becomes increasingly desperate to point out what is happening but, because the ringleader has been able to retreat, only the proxies are visible. So the abuse is effectively invisible in plain sight."

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1110452108183195649.html

I am honestly starting to think

Funny how so many of the posters opposed to TIM/TIF keep phrasing their opinions like they were on our side until we [insert x,y,z thought].

Us nasty women having opinions and all and wishing to discuss things using terms we think are appropriate to use that are not unkind nor abusive. Especially as those terms are in common usage elsewhere

If you say so

I do. And your tone is transphobia.

Why do you think I shouldn't be protected under legislation? Which part of the criteria did I not meet?

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

Language matters
Safehuarding matters
Sex matters

Chaps is a gender neutral term, but you sure are showing male pattern rage

You've gone way to far.

Is this really what feminism is about? This is your reply to a woman talking about being raped?

Masks are slipping

Some have, yes

happydappy2 Sorry happy - are you saying that as a woman I have to be nice?

Whomever above said I was being insulting re pointing out lack of intelligence and nuance, I would like to ask: how can facts be insulting? That's what has been written numerous times on this thread.

Disgusting isn't it @DecomposingComposers

Closer

still a yay from me

Some have, yes

They certainly have.

Wanting protection and safety for woman is a cause worth fighting for.

Wanting to alienate a group of people to belittle themselves and their identity, is not.

Your masks have slipped.