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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Mermaids response to piece in Mail tomorrow

574 replies

EweSurname · 25/05/2019 16:14

Looking forward to seeing what drops

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/press-enquiry-from-the-mail-on-sunday-25th-may-2019.html

We are very proud of the training we offer to schools and we have a proven record of helping teachers to support vulnerable children who simply want to get along with their lessons like any of their classmates.

We are disappointed to find that a school governor has made a covert recording of our training because our presentations are not held in secret and all of the scientific and legal information we offer is publicly available and well-tested.

We are surprised to see that a Church of England rector is complaining about our training when we are included in the CoE guidance on support for transgender people, which can be found here.

Part of the work of Mermaids is giving training talks to schools. These talks are well received and are an important part of how we promote an inclusive and informed approach to trans children and those who support them.

We have been contacted by the Mail on Sunday who are doing an article about one such talk. This post is our response, in accordance with our policy of posting our replies to media queries for the benefit of anyone interested in our activities.

OP posts:
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R0wantrees · 26/05/2019 21:55

Goodness, how sad the comments on here. This talk was requested by teachers at a school where there is a trans child, to aid their understanding. The comments on this thread illustrate exactly why such training is needed. Why not try spreading love and understanding instead of bigotry?

No, teachers have specific responsibilities to children for their education, development and Safeguarding.

Mermaids have enjoyed an extraordinary level of publicity and endorcement which is not backed up by their credentials.

Schools have trusted the endorsement of Mermaids from government & Stonewall etc.
That trust is evidentally not warranted.
As providers of teacher training & school resources, Mermaids (like any other business, charity or organisation) must be open to scrutiny.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/05/2019 21:58

This talk was requested by teachers at a school where there is a trans child, to aid their understanding

It was only permitted for them to understand a very rigid viewpoint on it though. Any exploration of that was stomped on aggressively and no-one was permitted to understand anything outside of what the “trainer” wanted them to understand.

JackyHolyoake · 26/05/2019 22:05

Perhaps, in future, schools need to request sight of a summary transcript from Mermaids of the training prior to the training event, so that they can evaluate it?

Or perhaps Mermaids could publish it on its web site?

WhyNotMe40 · 26/05/2019 22:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Justhadathought · 26/05/2019 22:22

The comments on this thread illustrate exactly why such training is needed. Why not try spreading love and understanding instead of bigotry?

Training is what you do with dogs, or with people wanting to learn a manual skill. Dealing with the complexities of human beings requires subtlety, investigation and patience; and certainly with the vulnerabilities and impressionability of childhood.

Love is not about being " nice" and always giving in - but often about staying firm and holding the boundaries so that the vulnerable can explore and reconcile themselves with their condition.

NotBadConsidering · 26/05/2019 22:30

EpiPen training

If someone turned up to a school to do EpiPen training, and the “educator” was telling staff members to inject it into the arm of the patient rather than the leg, it would be imperative that someone medically trained in the audience corrected that mistake. But apparently a biologist can’t correct the biological errors and falsehoods of this “educator”.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/05/2019 22:40

Having read that transcript, it’s very clear that Jan has a very limited understanding of the stuff she has actually been taught and is trying to “teach” to others. She doesn’t understand some of the terms she is using. She is parroting out a rehearsed script and can’t cope with any questions that she hasn’t learnt the official answer for. It felt like she was an MLM rep presenting a new type of anti wrinkle cream using the “scientific” buzz words that non thinkers don’t question but anyone with half a brain says “hang on, what do you mean “subcutaneous benefits”? What are they?” And she’ll say “it’s all in the brochure” The people she is “training” are intellectually (which isn’t the same as educationally- I have no idea of her educational background) miles ahead of her and she is way out of her depth. This is why she is getting angry and frustrated in these sessions. They are asking her questions she doesn’t understand and simply cannot answer. If mermaids have any hope of getting anywhere now they will be finding a far more articulate and intelligent replacement for Jan. But with intelligence comes...questions. Not sure questions are allowed at mermaids.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/05/2019 22:41

And that jellybabies shit was just Confused. I really worry about the level of education in schools if teachers are unquestioningly swallowing that barbie princess crap.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 26/05/2019 22:42

She is parroting out a rehearsed script and can’t cope with any questions that she hasn’t learnt the official answer for

Like everyone one else supporting the TRA narrative...

And members of.... cults.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 26/05/2019 22:44

I really worry about the level of education in schools if teachers are unquestioningly swallowing that barbie princess crap.

From the governments point of view, this is the perfect societal level, everyone brand loyal, nobody actually thinks.

R0wantrees · 26/05/2019 22:47

They are asking her questions she doesn’t understand and simply cannot answer. If mermaids have any hope of getting anywhere now they will be finding a far more articulate and intelligent replacement for Jan. But with intelligence comes...questions. Not sure questions are allowed at mermaids.

Presumably the training was written by CEO Susie Green?

BitOfFun · 26/05/2019 22:50

I've only been able to listen to the first few minutes of that audio, but how sad that the vicar began by stressing how important it is that nobody is bullied...then he gets disgracefully bullied himself. I was quite shocked at how unpleasantly he was treated.

LangCleg · 26/05/2019 22:53

Goodness, how sad the comments on here. This talk was requested by teachers at a school where there is a trans child, to aid their understanding. The comments on this thread illustrate exactly why such training is needed. Why not try spreading love and understanding instead of bigotry?

Why do you support putting children who question their gender outside the safeguarding protocols that apply to other children? Why do you think children who question their gender are less worthy of protection?

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/05/2019 22:53

From the governments point of view, this is the perfect societal level, everyone brand loyal, nobody actually thinks.

Yes. Good little worker robots.

Presumably R0wan. It’s quite amazing really. How have these stupid people gotten so far?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 26/05/2019 22:53

I was quite shocked at how unpleasantly he was treated.

Why?

Haven't you seen the reaction to questions?
Or generally 'thinking'?
Police can actually be called and everything.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 26/05/2019 22:54

How have these stupid people gotten so far?

Because they aren't stupid, the ants following are.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/05/2019 23:00

Jan is stupid. For sure.

R0wantrees · 26/05/2019 23:12

Jan is stupid. For sure.

Its more likely that as a parent of a transgender affirmed child, Jan has had to completely commit to the ideology.
The people who convinced & trained Jan should be held to account.

SarahTancredi · 26/05/2019 23:24

Goodness, how sad the comments on here. This talk was requested by teachers at a school where there is a trans child, to aid their understanding. The comments on this thread illustrate exactly why such training is needed. Why not try spreading love and understanding instead of bigotry?

I never understand why people come onto a parenting site then accuse parents of not caring about children.

We care more than anything. We want all children happy healthy supported and safe. We cant do that without asking these tough questions. Without checking that the information stands up to the toughest of scrutiny. And we cant do it if we take every question and every scenario as some personal attack and base policies on avoiding hurting someone's feelings.

I'm sure we all hated our parents as kids. I'm sure our kids think they hate us at times. But sometimes we have to say no knowing full well the upset it will cause because long term its for the best. As adults we take that hit over and over and over again.

Remember when we were young and we told our gran we liked a TV show. And then for whey birthday and xmas and Easter they kept buying stuff from that TV show. And you got fed up of it but you darent tell your gran for fear of hurting their feelings. You couldn't decide what was worse. The guilt of hurting their feelings or they guilt that they will continue to spend money on stuff you dont even want. This is when what started off about being about you and making you happy and it ends up with you being responsible for other peoples feelings and ensuring they dont feel like they have wasted all their time and money and energy on this stuff.

This is what worries me. That in the desperation to be supportive and make the child happy it's so full on and all consuming that on top of figuring out their place in the world they are having to placate adults by going along with all this stuff.

It doesn't allow them time and space to figure it all out.

MangoesAreMyFavourite · 26/05/2019 23:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 26/05/2019 23:37

Of they were concerned then why not call in a professional child psychologist? Someone who is trained and has the education to explain and advise?

Why pay a lobby group with question marks over their activities and associates?

AlwaysComingHome · 26/05/2019 23:39

Goodness, how sad the comments on here. This talk was requested by teachers at a school where there is a trans child, to aid their understanding.

That ‘understanding’ will be aided as much as if they’d brought in an exorcist to explain demonic possession because one of the children was epileptic.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/05/2019 23:45

Jan has had to completely commit to the ideology.
The people who convinced & trained Jan should be held to account.

For sure. That doesn’t preclude Jan from being stupid. And plain nasty. And accountable for her own actions as an adult.

R0wantrees · 26/05/2019 23:46

Of they were concerned then why not call in a professional child psychologist? Someone who is trained and has the education to explain and advise?

Katie Alcock (Lancaster university senior psychology lecturer) spoke at the recent Lancashire Resisters event.

She described the long recognised process by which children identify/classify sex.

She also explained that this basic understanding of child development is likely not taught to medical doctors / psychiatrists.

It seems likely that the prominant 'gender identity' doctors missed this undergraduate class.

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