Times article - Men ‘should accept trans women in changing rooms’

[EweSurname]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/men-should-accept-trans-women-in-changing-rooms-mg2b8vnd3

I just put that into the Joan MacAlpine tread. Here is a share token:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/men-should-accept-trans-women-in-changing-rooms-mg2b8vnd3?shareToken=d4e8feb7233c5cb7c494077628367857

More than happy to accept any human being changing with me. In some European countries most changing rooms are unisex.

Aside from schools, I do not really understand the changing room battle (from either side).

No adult really has to use a changing room at all and most swimming pools have cubicles. As for gyms, I would consider these luxury items and you can join one that caters to what you want (provided you can afford it). You can also go changed and shower at home.

Personally I think gyms should be free to set their own policy re trans. That way you could get single sex only, single ‘gender’ only (I don’t really believe in that either) and unisex. People could choose their gym according to their belief.

And if women decamped en masse from single ‘gender’ and unisex, those gyms would cease to exist.

There is surely a market (if these boards are anything to go by) for a female sex only gym.

Lovely idea but it'll never happen

Oops I will ask for my comment to be deleted, I misread the title completely.

Larry you clearly live in a wealthier area than I do - our council run gyms are almost universally from the 70s, with male and female changing room and a few cubicles with flimsy curtains but mostly open areas. I don’t want my daughters thinking that male bodied people in those open areas is ok.

One more modern facility has unisex changing rooms, originally the cubicles were open at the ceiling and floor (but with lockable door). They’ve since retrofitted some plastic on the top of the cubicles - the only reason I can think is to stop people (including pervy men) looking over at other people changing.

There are no private gyms within a reasonable distance (especially if you didn’t have a car), so not everyone has the luxury of choosing what sort of changing rooms they get to use if they want to swim or use the gym.

And finally, just because you’re happy with something doesn’t mean that other women have to give up our sex segregated spaces.

I am a man and am responding to the Times article.

I am happy for anyone in my changing room; I would not even notice I doubt. I agree with the Times.

Gender critical transwomen like Kristina Harrison, Debbie Hayton, Seven Hex, Fionne Orlander etc could set a brilliant example here by doing Man Friday style group visits to men’s changing rooms. I suspect Miranda Yardley’s already doing it.

If The Times can refer to JY by his male name

She was blocked from the social medial site for life for using the male pronoun when referring to Jonathan Yaniv, a self-identified trans woman who attempted to sue 16 female beauticians in Vancouver for refusing to provide “Brazilian” bikini wax services.

does that mean we can here on MN too?

I am a man therefore you don’t get why women do not want to share changing rooms with men. As for other European countries, I don’t think that’s accurate. Regardless, we don’t live there. Don’t force other cultures on us.

Excellent article but I expect the Times to get stick for it , but not by its commentators who are mainly GC. JY wasn't behaving like a woman wanting a bikini wax, JY was behaving like a men's rights activist or creepy fetishist. Some women did agree to wax JY's male genitalia. If it was just about getting JY's bits waxed JY would have stuck with her but it wasn't it was about making women feel uncomfortable and trying to force them in to intimate contact with male genitals. Transsexuals should be condemning this behaviour too.

That’s a great article.

I live in a European country and we have communal changing rooms that are single sex. Sadly, this country also seems to be going down the rabbit hole, but last time I bumped into a naked guy in the swimming pool showers when my girls were present, I quickly got them out of there and had reception tell him off. Staff were outraged at him.

Aside from schools, I do not really understand the changing room battle (from either side).

Girls & women need single sex spaces to change for their safety, privacy and dignity.

Having single sex provision for changing rooms enables all girls and women the potential to take part.

Making changing rooms mixed sex compromises girls & women's safety, privacy & dignity.

Making changing rooms mixed sex will mean that girls & women are impacted including being excluded as a consequence of the change in provision..

Brilliant.
Has reminded me to donate to MM Lawsuit again.

Aside from schools, I do not really understand the changing room battle

Did you see what happened when some women attempted to swim in a male environment. They called the police.

You do get it. You are just choosing not to. Those women were not a threat and yet the men still called the police. If it was the other way round, the police would get called, and still remove the women - from their own spaces.

So women = not allowed in male spaces, not allowed any female spaces.

Thus they stay at home, just what men would like, right? Barefoot and in the kitchen.

It is pretty simple to work it out.

There is surely a market (if these boards are anything to go by) for a female sex only gym.

They exist, they are also attractive to some male transpeople.There is a very real risk of being sued for upholding a female sex only gym.

NZ www.stuff.co.nz/business/104300841/revive-fitness-gym-denies-transgender-woman-from-joining

Canada www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/body-blitz-transgender-policy-1.4158397

larrygrylls it’s great that you’re so accepting of transwomen in your changing rooms. So you should be, as they’re male bodied. If you could start making more noise about welcoming TW into male changing rooms, really get some traction behind it, that would be awesome. Thanks in advance.

If you could start making more noise about welcoming TW into male changing rooms, really get some traction behind it, that would be awesome. Thanks in advance.

Affirming support under the line the OP Times article would be a great start.

She was blocked from the social medial site for life for using the male pronoun when referring to Jonathan Yaniv, a self-identified trans woman who attempted to sue 16 female beauticians in Vancouver for refusing to provide “Brazilian” bikini wax services.

Beautifully put.

More than happy to accept any human being changing with me. In some European countries most changing rooms are unisex.Aside from schools, I do not really understand the changing room battle (from either side)

Maybe this is because you have never felt threatened or vulnerable in the way that women do. and are. Men ogle and leer at women and girls; many make disparaging or so-called complimentary comments about female bodies - even in 'neutral' spaces such as supermarkets, shops, on the street. In many cultures, even now - men feel at liberty to touch a woman's body without her permission - and in ways we are sexually motivated.

Women want and require single sex spaces in order to feel safe and to be able to engage in everyday activities outside of the home. Young girls need to learn to value their own bodily integrity and to be able to control their own sexual boundaries.

Women's bodies are different to men's bodies and many functions of the female body are deeply personal and very private.

That you are happy being naked around anyone is great for you. You obviously have never encountered the sorts of threats mentioned above.

The quotes from Meghan McAlpine and from Joan McAlpine in the article don't sound radical at all. They sound like common-sense truths.

The quotes from Meghan McAlpine and from Joan McAlpine in the article don't sound radical at all. They sound like common-sense truths

In these days of Orwellian group think, the truth is a radical act.

Which European countries have mixed changing rooms? I've lived in a few and have never come across this.

She used male pronouns to describe Yaniv before the “misgendering” twitter rules came in, and twitter explicitly said it wouldn’t be retroactively applied. They seemed to make an exception for Megan though.

(Whether it broke twitter rules on misgendering isn’t even clear as Yaniv was using different names and seemed to use both male and female pronouns at the time).