MtF sets 4 new world records in women's power lifting

[ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving]

www.cornwalllive.com/news/local-news/sharron-davies-dismay-trans-powerlifter-2809964

Absolute disgrace. Absolute fucking disgrace.

I don't think it matters whether people who work in adoption think that way. It's significant that they do in other ways, but not for this.

Lots of people do think that way. You can see it when you hear people discuss the idea that a child could have the biological mother as father on the birth certificate. This is usually seen as no different than having two mothers or fathers on it, which we allow where I am and is done in some other places as well. And that is allowed on the basis of certain practices with adopted parents.

We've become very used to the idea that who we are, our names, our histories, our relationships, can be defined by legal structures in any way we choose. Maybe we don't choose to, but the sense is, we could. After all, it's just words and things we have constructed, right?

After all, it's just words and things we have constructed, right?

But currently, everyone shares the same understanding of words.

What is happening here is that some microscopic fraction of a percentage of people who everyone calls one thing, are angling to change the words that mean a different thing, by using them as they please. But they are pretty much the only ones who want that change.

""8th place. A highschool girls experience of track sports after transgender girls start competing""

In that video when the Duke law professor speaks and the man chairing it cuts in "right, you will have men's sports and you will have co-ed sports". Chilling. Also, not sure whether he seemed to care or not.

"she was mediocre as a male, then transitioned over to female and, again, blew everyone out of the competition".

I have spent almost two years following trans issues, it is still absolutely beyond me how sane people can look at this and still go "yea sure, it is their right to compete as girls, they are girls". Absolute insanity.

*But currently, everyone shares the same understanding of words.

What is happening here is that some microscopic fraction of a percentage of people who everyone calls one thing, are angling to change the words that mean a different thing, by using them as they please. But they are pretty much the only ones who want that change.*

What do we mean by everyone? Not the surprising large % of people who thinks it makes sense for self-identity to be what determines entrance to women's sporting events. Not the bulk of progressives who feel kind of loosey-goosey definitions of gender should replace sex, usually without sitting down ad thinking it through.

What I am saying is not that this is a direct argument, though I have heard it put that way - "we can change the definition of marriage as we understand more, why not the definition of woman, or sex?"

What I am suggesting is that the kinds of patters and ways of thinking we become accustomed to generally will impact how the bulk of people approach something like this, right from the get-go, often without them realising it. People are used to the idea of a legal or administrative change changing how we define a word or institution. They don't tend to think of language as only an attempt to describe something objective and real - they reserve that for things they define as "science". They think of language as something we use to create new realities.

Has anyone ever felt utter joy - as an adult - at creaming a small child at scrabble or monopoly? No? It’s the same thing.

I know transwomen are not popular around mumsnet, but this individual worked as hard for this record as any of her peers did. I don't think your perspectives on transwomen not really being women should not detract from her accomplishment.

Its a man taking womens records for gods sake. They may have worked hard, but against men, they would be nowhere. They have a natural advantage over women as they are male. So 'they worked so hard..' is not a good excuse, as they could work hard and compete wth their own sex, so its actually fair.

The lifter will be placed in a different category once the Transgender Division is introduced with a new policy.

Ah thats good news, and makes a lot of sense. Hopefully other organisations and such follow suit.

I seriously hate how saying males should compete with males is classed as 'transgender exclusion'. Noone is saying they shouldn't compete. Just that people with male bodies should not compete with female people. And before the 'but transmen' thing comes up, if they are on testosterone then no, they shouldn't compete with females either, under usual doping rules. Don't care if they compete with men, and men won't care either as they know a female person has no advantage over them anyway.

I wonder how they will define any transgender category. I hope there's a category for transmen too. Though how do you police drug taking in a category where taking testosterone is the norm? I hope it won't encourage people to take too much and put their health at risk. Transwomen who've downed their T-levels via drugs or surgery might also feel it unfair competing with those who have only socially transitioned. And I hope it doesn't become the norm for the young people's sake but what about TW who transitioned via puberty blockers and are without the historic testosterone boost advantage as well as current lower T levels. It's not simple is it. But could be a great move for encouraging kind, feminist sympathising transpeople into sport and to get more visibility.

thirdfiddle I know you were probably posting rhetorically, but in the "how does trans sport get sorted out"?

That's their problem, not ours. They can make the rules on how to (e.g) differentiate social trans from "real" trans; and decide what's fair amongst themselves.

Just like women should get to do for their sports.

Though how do you police drug taking in a category where taking testosterone is the norm?

Just as with any sports category, why should taking testosterone be allowed at all?

You choose to dope, you take the consequences.

I once worked for a rail company. All office staff, including temps, had to sign the same alcohol and drugs contract that the drivers signed. In any other office job, it would be nobody's business if you came into work with a hangover, as long as you got the work done and behaved appropriately. It's not even uncommon for that to happen. But at this rail company it would be a serious disciplinary issue, potentially instant dismissal.

In order to work there I had to accept the consequences of doing a completely legal and normal activity.

If you want to compete in sport, you have to accept certain restrictions on your life. Restrictions that are there to protect participants. You chose to take banned drugs, you have to accept the consequences. You chose to take banned drugs, you exclude yourself from the sport.

You chose to take banned drugs, you exclude yourself from the sport.

It's not even that draconian though.
All you will lose is the ability to compete in professional or otherwise "official" events.

You can still do the sport as an amateur all day every day if you want. And likely show up to amateur meets for fun etc if you have the guts to show face as a doper, but that's your own fault

There are people who take drugs for medical conditions which means they can't compete.

Really the better approach for transmen might be - don't take drugs.

buzz, I guess I was just thinking it would be interesting to see how it pans out. Not sure it is initially in trans people's hands to police, it is in the hands of the organisers. Though would be even more interesting to see how trans activists chose to do it and how "inclusive" or otherwise it all ended up being. Removing the option of biological females to dominate, would they actually consider the issues around fairness and boundary setting or would it be free for all? Where would they put all the trans people who don't identify as men OR women? The binary being so repressive and all.

Transmen have previously been allowed to take testosterone under a medical needs exemption. I guess I do feel a slight interest in their getting a look in in any trans category, being the biological females in the equation.

"There are people who take drugs for medical conditions which means they can't compete."

Exactly. Chris Boardman had to retire from cycling early, because the UCI wouldn't let him take medication to treat the early onset osteoporosis which he was suffering from.

Ah but needing drugs for medical conditions is a choice. Where deciding that as a male you should compete with women because its easier is inate and unchangeable so obviously there should be a loophole to allow those men to do so

TheGoals, I was talking about what happens after the males are removed from the female category. Pondering on how trans people might regulate a trans category, as has been suggested by this weightlifting federation. Usually the process with medications is that the sports body decides if it would give undue advantage. Obviously T does when competing with females and it's a scandal that a trans boy on T was allowed to compete with girls. When competing with males or other transmen?

Sorry was replying in a somewhat sarcastic manner to the person who pointed out meds for medical conditions can disqualify someone.

I don't really care what solutions there are. Its not my issue to solve. I just do not want any male competing with women, as its unfair on the women, regardless of how many lady-feelz the male has. Saying transwomen shouldn;'t be competing with women is not 'disqualifying them from sport' or 'saying they don't exist' or anything like claimed by TRAs, its expecting them to stick to the same rules as everyone else.

Also, I would be tempted to say, that transmen can take testosterone when competing with transpeople. As transwomen have the other advantages of being male, so it might even equal itself out a bit. Thats if there was enough interest for trans competitions, which I doubt there will be. Same as the third space option is totally unacceptable and bigoted!

Same as the third space option is totally unacceptable and bigoted!
True. Which is rather telling isn't it. The other thing I find telling is that binaries are unacceptable and bigoted and all that and sex and gender are a spectrum - except when it comes to sports categories when how dare you say a transwoman is any less female. If they really believed the gender stuff wouldn't they need 76 categories not be trying to take over those designated for boring old binary males and females?

*Thirdfiddle Not sure it is initially in trans people's hands to police"
Haa they're doing a god almighty good job of policing women's sports and policing women in sport who object to competing against males, so far.
I'm sure it's in them (the TRA) to put their efforts into creating actual trans-catered sports, and stop trying to wreck women's sports.

Just have a women's sports category exclusively for women-born-women, then have general sports for men, transwomen and transmen to compete together. Simples.

The xx league and the..

Non-xx league?

NSFW.

Sports commentator, Steven Crowder (guy with thousands of followers) has posted his opinion of this story on YouTube.

Spoiler alert: He's GC.....