Another day, another friend insisting that THIS video will change minds and hearts

[emerencealwayshopeful]

I watched it. I was doing washing up as well, so it wasn't focussed attention, but I don't recommend others force themselves through it. The production values are nice though, if you appreciate such things.

I'm just feeling lost again, turning on social media after a couple of days away and finding this shared a few times over with words explaining that nobody could be 'swayed by so-called gender-critical arguments' after seeing this all the way though.

How do intelligent women not understand that none of this has anything to do with denying the existence of people who are clearly here and all of it has to do with the fact that this ideology is a threat to women and girls?

This, the Ogre's piece denouncing JY (And the other articles about that vile human) and I need to avoid social media - except that I also have a social life that is barely real so need to go there sometimes to prove to myself I still exist.

You're entitled to think what you like about Natalie Lamaha but then why comment on the thread if you've got nothing to add other than personal attacks? You don't get to dictate how other people dress and speak just because you find it grating.

Honestly, just my subjective opinion of course, you come across as ageist, transphobic and homophobic.

Oh dear, don't go on any threads about celebrities.

I just find it frustrating that she has useful and interesting things to say but they are difficult to concentrate on. She is obviously an excellent communicator, so if she is genuinely trying to educate and inform, she needs to understand her audience and speak to them.

it doesn’t matter a hoot - we can’t criticise people for not getting the dress-code right when we’re agreed that women are not defined by their clothes.

I didn't mind the clothes one bit. It's the unnatural voice and stupid playacting that irritated me. I was willing to listen but was turned off within five minutes.

Are you a personal friend of Contrapoints, StarspangledAnna?

Seems a tad much!

It's gimmicky, puerile and annoying. As pp said, try watching the one where Contrapoints, imitating a GC feminist, gets into a bath of blood and rubs it all over themselves.

Tee hee.

If someone posted that video to "convince" me, I'd have to defriend them, unless we were very close.

I don't know her, no. In fact I've never seen her videos before this one.

Some of the comments here just seem unnecessarily focused on her personal appearance and presentation rather than what she's saying. If you have a problem with men presenting in a feminine manner then start a thread about that but there's no need to make it personal.

She is obviously an excellent communicator, so if she is genuinely trying to educate and inform, she needs to understand her audience and speak to them.

Contrapoints does know their audience and is speaking to them. Contrapoints audience isn't women concerned about the safety and dignity of women and girls.

I didn’t have a problem with the clothes.

Contrapoints audience isn't women concerned about the safety and dignity of women and girls.

This. Exactly.

“If you have a problem with men presenting in a feminine manner then start a thread about that but there's no need to make it personal.”

I don’t have a problem with men presenting in a feminine manner. I do have a problem with someone trying to engage on a serious and important subject and burying it in gimmicks and special effects. It makes me wonder how serious her desire to educate and inform is or whether she is just preaching to the choir,

It is just preaching to the chorus and a invitation to the audience to roll out the same nasty points to women who disagree, exactly as highlighted by the OP.

The points made are not intelligent rebuttals with careful reasoning, they are smears, misrepresentations and lies.

I wasn't meaning your comments Bertrand.

But on the point about the manner of presentation I disagree. Why should there be an obligation to present everything in a manner that you personally find worthy of inclusion in debate? This issue affects everyone, young, old, people able to read through length essays and people who prefer snazzy videos. Perhaps the video was intended to preach to the choir but I found it interesting nonetheless.

I think Trousering has the measure of it.

I don't know but I'm sure I'm not the only person who was not impressed by Germaine Greer referring to the trans woman as "it"

Germaine Greer is just Germaine Greer - she doesn't do political correctness or politeness, as we all know. The "it" was probably her way of dealing with the pronoun 'issue'.

“Why should there be an obligation to present everything in a manner that you personally find worthy of inclusion in debate? ”

Not me personally. But you must agree that most people who enjoyed the content and presentation of that video probably agreed with her anyway. Apart from anything else If she really wants to break down barriers presenting the gender critical point of view as an Ursula style monster is a bit tactless!

I managed 8 minutes before the pretentious waffle and exaggerated facial expressions irritated me too much to continue.
Also, why were they dressed like a 1940s [female] film star?
And why dressed like the goddess of death in Thor Ragnorak when they were portraying a gc

Because women can be reduced to a series of pantomime stereotypes, and the elegant 1940's style 'type' of look floats their boat. GC women are the bad ones; the ones that that you at boo at when they enter the stage.

Her point at the beginning is that she's aiming at those who are interested in or even swayed by GC arguments, but not those who already identify as GC proper because they are unlikely to be converted by her (this thread perhaps being evidence of that).

I fall into the former camp and found it persuasive and a lot of the points are well made and balanced. In my view not preaching to the chorus, who probably disagree with much of what she has to say re male socialization. At times OTT but it's YouTube.

The article is interesting, the video as well IMHO. The insulting comments about the presenter in this thread are less helpful and seem unnecessary and cruel.

The fact is that presenting 'woman' in this way is also insulting; very insulting, and certainly not helpful.

Maybe most who like that kind of presentation agreed with her anyway but whether you like it or not you can still listen to it and address the points raises. I find some of the long GC essays very difficult to get through but I do because I think what they have to say is interesting and worthy of attention.

I agree that the personification of GC feminism as a literal witch is...telling. It was frustrating how I really thought she was going to address the core GC issues but then reduced GC feminism to a baddy who only speaks in single sentences.

You're entitled to think what you like about Natalie Lamaha but then why comment on the thread if you've got nothing to add other than personal attacks? You don't get to dictate how other people dress and speak just because you find it grating.

People can dress and speak how they like, but when they go public with a lecture on such a sensitive issue, then they have to expect some criticism. The criticism is not personal, it is about the way they are presenting.... It is insulting, and people have listed the reasons why.

I hate this video. I couldn't watch it all it a few weeks ago when it popped up on twitter. How any self respecting woman cannot see this persons superiority complex is beyond me. They are patronising and condescending. And they are dressed like a parody of women.

This is not the future I want for my little girl.

Stand strong.
✊🏻💗