Another day, another friend insisting that THIS video will change minds and hearts

[emerencealwayshopeful]

I watched it. I was doing washing up as well, so it wasn't focussed attention, but I don't recommend others force themselves through it. The production values are nice though, if you appreciate such things.

I'm just feeling lost again, turning on social media after a couple of days away and finding this shared a few times over with words explaining that nobody could be 'swayed by so-called gender-critical arguments' after seeing this all the way though.

How do intelligent women not understand that none of this has anything to do with denying the existence of people who are clearly here and all of it has to do with the fact that this ideology is a threat to women and girls?

This, the Ogre's piece denouncing JY (And the other articles about that vile human) and I need to avoid social media - except that I also have a social life that is barely real so need to go there sometimes to prove to myself I still exist.

The evil panto witch does look like fun. Lots of time, effort and expensive equipment and software went into making that strawlady look so evil and panto and witchy. I'm sure contrapoint had lots of fun creating the character.

It's not so much fun if it's you and your interests, your arguments for your rights, that are being portrayed in this way. It's not so much fun if a bunch of women are saying 'I was totally GC before () but this video makes lots of sense' (while never being able to articulate exactly what 'sense' has been made).

Are people no longer able to recognise propaganda if it has high producton values? If so we are truly fucked.

I found it offensive that they basically say we must have all been abused to have concerns about tw without an sympathy whatsoever to the fact that YES a lot of us have been abused, a genuine reminder of the risk but no we are capable of intelligent reasoning on the side

Quite. Nothing gives you an accelerated understanding of how abusers operate quite like watching one at close quarters.

I have never been abused (though I've encountered a lot of harassment by men) and I STILL don't want to get naked in the same room as strangers. I don't even want to get naked in the company of really, really lovely men that I know in a platonic way.
Does that make me a prude? I really don't care. I don't see why I should have to.
And those women who HAVE been abused definitely should not be forced to.
Women who don't mind can go in the mixed showers/changing rooms, which should be third spaces or the men's.
Women need privacy and their reasons should not be questioned.
Have we learned nothing at all from *metoo?
'

It's not so much fun if a bunch of women are saying 'I was totally GC before

Like one of the commenters on the Holly Lawford Smith article, I read Contrapoints' Twitter thread when CP put a call out on Twitter for "gender critical feminists" who'd seen the light and were now proud trans allies. As the commenter pointed out, they didn't appear to have any feminist analysis of gender, they were just "garden variety transphobes" who had decided they liked trans people after all because they liked CP's videos.

And of course, CP didn't care whether they were actually gender critical feminists or not, because this is an exercise in propaganda.

Once you really peak, as a woman, you don't tend to go the other way, because modern trans ideology is about male supremacy and has no internal logic, and its followers can't adequately defend it in open and free conversation. Once that becomes obvious there really isn't anywhere else to go.

And here is the tweet thread. A large amount of these "I was totes a gender critical feminist/TERF" statements are from male people denouncing women they know.

twitter.com/ContraPoints/status/1105219197850865671?s=20

Or MTFs describing how they got into trans ideology

I'm not convinced by lots of those tweets. The most realistic ones are those saying 'I'm from a conservative family, but read a lot of stuff online'

I didn't see any that said they used to be against puberty blockers and breast binding on children, but think its ok now.

World of Socks.

Contra points is someone who I actually really like, they just have a massive blind spot when it comes to this issue because they obviously have so much invested in it.

I watched their ‘are traps gay’ video yesterday and I totally agreed with all of her points until she started saying that trans women are women and that there’s such thing as a feminine penis.
I found it REALLY interesting that in that video she spoke of her own experience that she used to date women but when she transitioned she found all ‘cis lesbians’ to be terfs and realised she actually wanted to have sex with men anyway.
It’s obviously not up to be to define her sexuality, but as an outsider that sure as hell looks like repressed homosexuality due to internalised homophobia to me.

To me it’s obvious that it’s not that straight men fancy trans women because they’re women, but that the world is incredibly homophobic so lots of bisexual men repress their feelings.
We should be fighting for a world where it doesn’t matter one jot who you love or fancy, that being bisexual is completely accepted, not that men who dress a certain way become women. Why do women have to redefine ourselves so men don’t perceive to have their masculinity insulted?

Contra points seems intelligent and I think she might struggle in the future when she unpacks some of her misogyny and homophobia. I think she’s deliberately not debating with terfs because she knows they would challenge the holes she can already feel in her arguments.

I didn't see any that said they used to be against puberty blockers and breast binding on children, but think its ok now.

Precisely.

Urgh that twitter feed.

None of those people were terfs.

They were just transphobes.

The man saying that older lesbians hate the fact that some of their friends transition because it means they were with men all along and never had safe spaces. I mean wtf? Literally gleeful at the thought of those bitter old lesbians being tricked all along.

Heartbreaking.

The Contrapoints Autogynephilia video is a particularly good example of the uselessness of Contrapoints’ arguments.

They claim to debunk the theory, but actually do nothing of the kind, finishing with nothing but a ‘yeah, so, some transwomen are probabably AGPs, but so fucking what?’ Conclusion.

In fact, if you want to see an excellent illustration of the Blanchard AGP/HSTS typography, just look at Contrapoints’ friend (partner?) Theryn.

I haven’t watched this whole video, I just skipped to about 40 mins in, assuming that by then that they are both settled in and being themselves - it happens to be a point where they are talking about Michael Bailey (author of the Man who would be Queen) and Jordan Peterson, so I might actually watch it.

Anyway, this video is Blanchard’s typology in action - guess which one is the AGP?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=xedSSsQeGL0

(I used to quite like some of CP’s pretransition stuff, but once you’ve seen Natalie strawmanning an argument that you know is a complete misrepresentation or failing to make even a disingenuous argument against a topic, whilst pretending to have ‘debunked’ it, it’s impossible to continue to watch in good faith)

Oh, and here is Contrapoints ‘debating’ fellow YouTuber transwoman, Blaire White, a couple of years ago.

This is why Contra would never dare do a live chat with an actual GC feminist - Blaire wiped the floor with Contra’s wig.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=-SeCD8tJUhU

(Blaire is also HSTS, in Blanchard’s theory)

I just watched the video in the OP. I managed about 10 mins, CP raises common gender critical arguments, then completely fails to properly answer them.

E.g. regarding presentation CP admits they choose their look because being called "sir" would ruin their day, but expects more masculine presenting women to have some solidarity with that.

There is no understanding that masculine presenting women want to be recognised as perfectly fine women despite not following stereotypical femininity.

It's the exact opposite experience and CP fails to explain why gender critical feminists should support the idea that lots of makeup indicates woman.

I am using masculine presenting women as shorthand for women who don't do high heels, nails, makeup etc.

Yes I've seen the Blaire White debate as well and I agree, Betty.

I am using masculine presenting women as shorthand for women who don't do high heels, nails, makeup etc.

I wish you wouldn’t. I’m not masculine-presenting, I’m just an unadorned adult female mammal

Me too hipster, I was just trying to think of the opposite of performed femininity. Sorry!

Yeah, I know

Oh blimey that thread Erishkigal

Apparently Contrapoints does intellectual empathy. That's what the video is demonstrating.

Is that another way of describing sneering?

I think the empathy is the bit where she admits that trans women grow up and are socialised with male privilege. She is actually getting flak for that and being called ‘truscum’ by TRAs. Even though anyone sane could see that of course trans women have a different socialisation to adult human females.

So allowing a little bit of straight forward fairly non controversial understanding of socialisation to leak out is intellectual.

I had no idea the bar was so low for intellectual thought, we are all Nobel standard geniuses here on mumset in that case. I had to look up the plural of genius by the way.

Recognition at last.

[awaits call from Sweden]

🏆 & million 💷 on the way hipsterfun.