Ama - transwoman

[Indigo9]

I've heard about Mumsnet for years in regards to views on transgender women. But until today I had never visited the site. I've spent hours reading posts related to transwomen and the gender ID bill. I do think there is a little bit of a disconnect with regards to who and what we are. So I've decided to setup this profile with a mind to answering questions you may have about being transgender. I'm not in to hate or insults, so you won't see me participate in any mud slinging, name calling or anything else. I will, however, answer any legitimate questions from my own perspective. I do not speak for the whole trans community and would not try to, but will happily share what I know.

I agree Lord.

What's your opinion on grey rocks?

I have no idea what thinking like a woman is
Does that mean I am not a woman?

I do have to have my coil fitted next week so I have thought about that today. Is that a woman thought?
I also wanted to punch the man that cat called me yesterday so would that be more of a man thought?

End of the day it is not thoughts or feelings that make you a man or a woman. It is not a lifestyle. It is biology.
When people try to describe man and woman using thoughts and feelings it makes the word useless and they tie themselves in knots trying to avoid the true answer. It shows the ridiculousness of their argument.

Do you think my young male relative should be allowed to use the Ladies? He is a slight, feminine, flamboyant gay man whose appearance and mannerisms frequently draw negative attention and threats from other men. He is actually more "feminine" presenting than many male people I have seen demanding to use women's spaces, yet would never dream of making such a demand himself. Why is this?

The only concrete example of female behaviour given by the OP was changing into comfy pants after work.

why is the OP wearing clothes that aren't comfortable to work? why not wear their comfy pants to work?

is it possible that part of how the OP defines 'woman' is 'wears uncomfortable, stereotypically feminine clothes'? - i.e. sexist stereotypes?

Well LangCleg I'm a bit annoyed at grey rocks right now. I ordered some grey stone for my garden and there is most definitely a green hue to it.

and the only concrete example of thinking like a woman provided by the OP was

I, and other woman are more kind generally. Less likely to control others

given that the OP came here, apparently to re-educate us, is not bothered by any distress they may cause to women when accessing single sex spaces, and appears to believe that 'because I said so' is a good reason for women to accept them into single sex spaces, I'm not convinced about either being kind or not being controlling.

OP sorry but you have been sold a lie.

Being a woman = thinking like one, is a false equivalency. It doesn't exist.

If you felt different, it's because society values a set of behaviours in men and women differently.

If you align towards the 'wrong' behaviours, it doesn't make you the opposite sex 'born in the wrong body', it makes you the sex you were born as, because nothing can change this. Nothing.

So you were an effeminate boy, and your parents tried to beat it out of you. This means were abused as a child. Not that you were born in the wrong body. The answer then was to change you, not to change the mindsets of the people around you. Which sadly, seems to be the answer to everything these days.

If as a boy child, doctors had given you testosterone to make you more 'male' there would have been an outcry. But giving you female hormones to make you less male, not a concern at all. Doesn't this make you angry? Why are people not accepting of feminine males?

Why do you think so many female hormones are readily available to men before they are even adults, when women are still denied these same hormones when they hit the menopause, when these hormones might stop them getting osteoporosis and other crippling problems associated with living longer after the menopause?

By the way, men being given female hormones when I had to wait 7 years to get HRT and now have osteoporosis boils my piss.

How fucking dare they?

@BernardBlacksWineIceLolly I don't understand the whole "change into comfy pants" thing either, I spend my life in leggings or jeggings that are comfortable all day. No changing until bedtime for me!

DP on the other hand will change into his disgusting grey jogging bottoms as soon as he gets home from work. I guess we can assume that whether you wear comfy pants or not has absolutely nothing to do with your sex or gender

OP sorry but you have been sold a lie

and yes, isn't it so apparent that being raised in a very sexist environment and transgenderism seem to go hand in hand?

just another example of how harmful sexism is for everyone. This person has formed some beliefs about women's minds and personalities being intrinsically different to mens, decided that their personality matches that of women better than that of men, and on that basis had radical surgery and drug treatment which will in all likelihood have rendered them sterile, and a lifelong medical patient.

I’m wearing my comfy pants today.

I'm wearing my comfy denim skirt. although my current (very slow) quest to reduce my BMI has rendered my skinny jeans comfortable again, so they're back on wardrobe rotation - hurrah!

It is only very recently have we been able to be out, be proud of who and what we are and simply get on with living our best lives.

I don’t get how hiding ones past and previous name is being out and proud.

Being out and proud of being trans is accepting the whole journey, not just the final destination.

How come it's only ever transwomen who can say they know how it feels to think like a woman? I don't know any women who say they think like a woman. Only transwomen.

beaspin, OP think you are both kind of missing the point.

an awful lot of women, finger in the air 30%, have struggled all their life with not fitting the binary mode. That bit we understand. Totally.

This is partly what feminism has been about..allowing us be scientists , to take out a mortgage, Wear tourers, vote, leave the children with their dad , things that our lady brains were( and by some, still) considered incapable of. We see ourselves as human. We cannot detect any way in which we are different to men beyond the bloody obvious physical crap.

However despite this we see a strong need for some things like privacy or sport to have sex based aspects, because of that physical crap

🙉🙈🙊 🍌

What’s with all this hysteria?

Op answered the question clearly....your lady brains just didn’t listen properly.

Being a women is wearing comfortable clothes when you get home

It’s about the level of contribution I’ve come to expect.

Did the OP go through puberty as a boy or was she on puberty blockers then females hormones. If puberty was as a boy then she might now resemble a woman after surgery, etc but her body has all the benefits of being male no matter how much oestrogen she is taking now. You can't change your chromosomes.

My first female thoughts today were:
Must put on my glasses - can't see without them!
Wow, that Night Nurse really knocks you out - hope I wasn't snoring too loudly
Need a pee
Have I got any eggs for breakfast
Must buy Mum a birthday cake

Please bear in mind that I am 47 & almost at the end of the menopause. So I take my daily HRT, every 3 days I use an oestrogen pessary & the other days I use lubricating pessaries to ease my vaginal atrophy. So I'm going through a lot of womanly things at the mo. But my first thought was about glasses...

I repeat the request of another user above. Could you post the screenshot?

I heard that Mumsnet was full of hateful comments towards transwomen in particular. What made me come here today was a screenshot on FB that contained some pretty vulgar language towards transwomen.

Mumsnet mods work hard and fast to remove anything that breaks our rules. You will not find that comment on this forum. However if you look at:
Kiwi Farms
Facebook
Twitter
In fact any other source of social media, you'll find 100 times worse. Will you be going there later?

I find your logic interesting, as you've stated "kindness" is the key to womanly magical essence. Obviously we are NOT KIND, therefore why do you want to engage with a group of us men?

The bathroom issue is interesting...

If you, whilst in transition visited the men's bathroom you say you would be beaten.

What about a male transgender in the late stages of transition visiting the men's bathroom - surely the same logic says they would be beaten too?

You're really brave for coming here, OP. But it's nice to see someone who can speak for the trans community. We need more of that round here.

Dance like - brilliant post. You express the argument perfectly.

I appreciate the effort Indigo9 has made to come to talk to us, and I find it interesting that Indigo9 uses 'transwoman' rather than 'trans woman', implying Indigo9 isn't fully on board with the more fanatical side of TRA politics.

Thoughts on what it's like to 'live as a woman/girl':

1. You have a natural female body.
2. You are socialised into the female gender role from infancy.
3. You continue to pick up on signals from people around you, male and female, that you are female and this affects the way people treat you and how they expect you to behave.
4. More controversially, it might be true that there are male and female ways of thinking, influenced by biology rather than socialisation. We do see patterns repeated in every culture, with for instance men committing the vast majority of serious crime and making up almost all the clients of prostitution.

So how does a transwoman live as a woman?

They aren't biologically female, although they can try to simulate it.

They will have been socialised as male from infancy - whether or not that socialisation felt 'wrong'.

It's possible that they might pass to the point that everyone genuinely thinks they are female, in which case they are 'living as a woman' in one respect, but in most cases they don't pass and so will be treated as a male dressed in feminine clothes.

As for the fourth thing, transwomen seem to commit crimes at male rates. We've got to the stage that when the media reports a woman committing a serious crime, people from across the political spectrum suspect she's actually male.

Basically, a transwoman can only simulate how they think women live.

Having said that, I believe sexual dysphoria is a real thing and it's likely Indigo9 has a MH condition that makes them feel alienated from their own body.