Ama - transwoman

[Indigo9]

I've heard about Mumsnet for years in regards to views on transgender women. But until today I had never visited the site. I've spent hours reading posts related to transwomen and the gender ID bill. I do think there is a little bit of a disconnect with regards to who and what we are. So I've decided to setup this profile with a mind to answering questions you may have about being transgender. I'm not in to hate or insults, so you won't see me participate in any mud slinging, name calling or anything else. I will, however, answer any legitimate questions from my own perspective. I do not speak for the whole trans community and would not try to, but will happily share what I know.

Btw. We know. We always know. We might be polite and refer to you as she and call you by a female name. We might not even be that bothered at sharing a public toilet with you, but we know.
One of the things about ‘thinking like a woman’ is being able to spot a potential threat. That isn’t to say for a second that transwomen are a threat but men are. Women treat all men as potential threats. All of them, even the nice ones, it’s part of thinking like a woman.

My non-grey rock question is to everyone on the thread except the OP and it's in the form of a crossword clue:

Unmistakable kind of hubris that assumes the time and attention of women is merited.

/ _

Most of my adult experience has been as a woman
Can you give some more detail on this please OP. What are those experiences?

I do know that I, and other woman are more kind generally. Less likely to control others

And yet the OP comes into a forum about women's rights with the barely disguised intent to re-educate the users ...

Control much??? That socialisation is hard to hide eh?

Hi Indigo.
When you say you feel like a woman, is this mentally or physically or both?

As for competing in sports, my feelings are simple, there should be a trans women and a trans man games, separate to the men's and women's. You have your own races, competitions like we have. You wouldn't put a disabled person against an abled person? You shouldn't put a trans man in a rugby match with all men, they'd be mashed. You shouldn't put a trans women in a race against a woman, they'll win. Generally. Can you see my point? There are physical difference that need to be catered for and respected.

I will call you she, her etc happily, but you are a trans woman not a woman.

What a load of bolloxs!

All about making themselves happy and dismissing any concerns women and girls have about their own safety and dignity.

We are angry because we are sick of this shit!

Langcleg I thought male privilege but it doesn’t fit!

There are a lot of assumptions and stereotyping in your posts OP. Women have different thought processes to men, are kinder and less controlling than men, are physically usually slighter and weaker, like to wear comfy, unrestrictive clothing when they are at home etc. I say this is utter nonsense. You can have your body surgically and hormonally modified, you can wear dresses and heels and you can behave in a way you consider female. You can change your name and use different toilets but biologically you are male. It’s not a criticism it’s a fact.

Langcleg I thought male privilege but it doesn’t fit!

Halfway there!

Entitlement!

My question is - why did you assume that the reason the varied women who post here are more concerned about the rights of women and girls than the feelings of men who believe they are women was because they haven't had a chance to ask you questions?

Is it ego, or are you actually the one person in the steady stream of transpeople who have come here with different styles to teach us a lesson that can actually explain why gender is a legitimate thing that women should embrace?

It's bullshit that women are "more kind". Bull. Shit.

But we suffer far harsher social sanctions if we're not, so women are socialised from birth to not put their needs first, to listen and not speak, to put themselves second, to serve others first.

We're meant to behave like this even if we don't want to. It's not innate, it's learned. Anyone can learn it, or perform it, if they want to but it's fucking offensive to label it as womanly.

I thought we were moving beyond the little girls are sugar and spice and all things nice shit, but it seems to be coming back with a vengeance.

Russnfussn.

Couldn’t agree more, sleepyhead.

Wear my comfy pants when I get home

My husband wears his comfy pants when he gets home. That's a human thing, not a woman thing.

I thought we were moving beyond the little girls are sugar and spice and all things nice shit, but it seems to be coming back with a vengeance

mmm hmmm

it's why my position has hardened. I think humouring men who feel compelled to comply with feminine stereotypes is intrinsically harmful to women. Not just in easily tangible 'why is there a male on that all women shortlist' kind of ways. but because it endorses and reinforces sexist stereotypes as defining women.

@Indigo9, women are not a homogenous unit. We do not think the same; we don't not think like women, which is a very sexist thing to say, we think like ourselves.

Every person on this planet can only think as themselves, not like a women our like a man. You are just you. What you really mean is that you align yourself/ feel more comfortable with the stereotypes placed on women. I'm sorry, but that has nothing to do with being a woman.
Humans are women only because they were born with a female body comprising of uterus, ovaries vulva, vagina, etc, and XX chromosomes and their bodies produce ova, not sperm. This does not include those suffering from a chromosomal mutation/disorder, although they will still either be women or men, although out May not be obvious at first. This doesn't change the fact that you are either male of female though.

I actually find it extremely offensive that you say you think like a woman. How would you know! I don't. I'm female because of my body, nothing more, nothing less.

You think like you, and your body is male. Those things aren't really related.

Being kind has nothing to do with being a woman. That's a stereotype.

Will now go and read the rest of the thread, but felt I had to reply as your post at 2.02 really annoyed me!

I do not know what it is like to think like a man. I didn't learn to think like a woman. I just always have.

If you do not know what it is like to think like a man how do you know you aren't thinking like a man? I don't think I think like most women, judging by the way most women behave I think very differently from them. I still am a woman. Just with a different personality.

Okay, so I am what I am. I was born female, I have a female body. It has changed throughout my life quite drastically from childhood, to early puberty, to womanhood (fat and thin, sporty and slobby) to pregnant, to post baby and now my 'mum bod' that has never bounced back and a lopsided stomach. I feel like a skinny, sporty person until I see myself in the mirror again. So I don't think there is such a thing as a typical woman's body other than breasts (which come in all shapes and sizes), waists (again, all different) and obviously the genitals (same point again). So really, your physical transformation is essentially removing your external genitals and adding breasts, so youve altered your body (your male body) in the same way anyone can have cosmetic surgery. It doesn't stop you being exactly who you were before, you're just changing your cover
I don't think like a 'woman', I think like me. I experience life as me. I have no way of knowing if my thoughts are male or female (I've often been referred to as a gay man trapped in a woman's body because I'm very feminine and camp apparently). How can thoughts be one or the other? If you have always thought like a woman, how do you know that wasn't just how you, a man, thought?
You refer to being beaten if you went into the men's toilets. But if you pass so much as a woman, why would that happen? Every time? I've used men's toilets many a time and never been beaten. I also look like a woman (I am one).
I don't believe being a woman is experiencing painful periods or painful childbirth, or leaky boobs as listed further up the thread. I don't know what being a woman is, except that I am one and have never thought to question that. I do know that I have been raised in a world which favours men, and when I walk into a computer shop, the staff will go to assist men before me, I know that as a child all the images depicted doctors as men, I know I wasn't allowed to play rugby at school, I was always told to be a lady, be dignified, accept help if a man offered it. I then began to question all this as I got older, so I guess to me, that is being a woman. It's breaking through the chains that hold you back. That has made us who we are.

However would I want a male coming in to the bathroom I use...hell no! That would be plain intimidating and very uncomfortable.

What if they promise to think woman thoughts while they are in the women's toilets?

I think that I might wear comfy pants all day today. Which bathroom should I use? I'm very confused.

I'll answer these two questions together. I do not know what it is like to think like a man. I didn't learn to think like a woman. I just always have.

But if you don’t know what’s it like to think like a man then how do you know you have never thought like one?

While transitioning either bathroom is a scary place. So yes I think transwomen in transition should use the women's loo.

Surely that's an argument for making third spaces available, not for going in women's loos where both the transwomen and the women may feel intimidated?

I'm currently thinking like a woman I think. I'm standing in a chilly train platform on my way to an important meeting. I feel slightly queasy and lightheaded, and my abdomen is cramping. I'm worried that my period is going to start during the meeting. I'm wearing a pad but will it be enough? I forgot to wear black this morning. I haven't got any painkillers with me. Bollocks.