Ama - transwoman

[Indigo9]

I've heard about Mumsnet for years in regards to views on transgender women. But until today I had never visited the site. I've spent hours reading posts related to transwomen and the gender ID bill. I do think there is a little bit of a disconnect with regards to who and what we are. So I've decided to setup this profile with a mind to answering questions you may have about being transgender. I'm not in to hate or insults, so you won't see me participate in any mud slinging, name calling or anything else. I will, however, answer any legitimate questions from my own perspective. I do not speak for the whole trans community and would not try to, but will happily share what I know.

Maybe I'm just socialised to be 'nice' hmm, but I would love to have a real, open discussion about the whole thing without the snarky comments which don't really add anything.

It can't happen. Because it never gets beyond accept what I say.

As I mentioned, this is the gazillionth time a transwoman has done this.

Once it was because being a woman made them feel more vibrant or being objectified is hot, or we've also had that they like baking and keeping house.

If you don't see the problem with deciding that what determines one's sex is a whole set of, in the case of women, largely damaging and old fashioned stereotypes, then I can't help you.

To be fair, celibabies the comfy pants only came into the discussion after OP couldn’t answer most of the questions asked and used them as an example. The first part of the thread is very measured and polite, but I suppose posters, myself included, became frustrated with the predictability of the circular logic OP used.

Lime the word “gray” was under the name of Veronica I believe, not Lime

I’m 95% sure it was a set up, some of the phrasing was goady for sure - the bloke walking into the loos.

OP if I’m wrong I apologise profusely and will send you chocolate.

I've been off this board for a while but have noticed lots of either newcomers or babe changes. The two ooooh you're so mean posters are very similar to those who previously always said similar. Posting style remains despite name changes.

Indeed, I too am happy to take the OP at their word. None of us can define our human experience. If OP says that they're more comfortable as a woman, there's plenty of room in my head to accept that. I don't think it diminishes or affects my experience of being a woman at all.

Anyone can dress/style their hair etc in ways that are currently stereotypically female (or male). No problem with that. In fact that kind of freedom is what we want for everyone - man, woman or child! Great!

But that doesn't mean they actually ARE female (or male), does it?
Same way that I am not ACTUALLY a cat/witch/pumpkin despite my halloween outfit.

This whole concept of "thinking like a woman" (or man) is ridiculous because there is no one Borg female (or male) mind. Therefore, we can't claim to think like anyone or anything other than ourselves because we have no way of objectively quantifying or describing what that thinking is.

Being "uncomfortable as a man" does not automatically = "woman".

So what is it you are actually objecting to Veronica?

Also worth considering: how are women treated here, and on AIBU and chat if they present an argument or POV that other women don't agree with, and which is in fact quite offensive/discriminating towards them?

Are they treated with kid gloves and care not to be hostile? Or are they treated as equals and expected to be adults responsible for what they say a la the normal MN vipers no holds barred approach?

To those posters saying they think we should just take people's word for it that they are women until proven otherwise, can I please refer you to my questions on page 11 re: falsifiable claims and the burden of proof? Any answers or rebuttals to these points would be fab.

If someone wants to redefine the word woman within their own head and enjoy that from the privacy of their own home then fair enough. I think it's a crappy thing to do but whatever, go well and be happy. If they then want to force that definition on the rest of society in the form of sweeping legislative changes and compelled speech with real world consequences for actual women and girls, then yeh, they better be prepared to justify that choice!

Thanks BeUpStanding :)

And furthermore, do you honestly think that thousands and thousands (millions) of women have suddenly just taken a notion in their heads to collectively and simultaneously dislike a group of people for no reason whatsoever at all?

Or if there any chance that maybe they have reasons and would like to have their POV heard as well, before their distinct and clear cut category is changed to include a completely different, equally clear cut and distinct category?

The former makes zero sense unless you also believe in chemtrails and tinfoil hats, which leaves us with....

@BuzzPeakWankBobbly

Pointless bullying is what I'm objecting to, as I said.

If someone wants to redefine the word woman within their own head and enjoy that from the privacy of their own home then fair enough. I think it's a crappy thing to do but whatever, go well and be happy. If they then want to force that definition on the rest of society in the form of sweeping legislative changes and compelled speech with real world consequences for actual women and girls, then yeh, they better be prepared to justify that choice!

And getting irritated, cross, or even furious on the basis that they won't, but still demand you accept the premise, is entirely rational.

I'm not surprised that the OP won't answer questions. I never expected them to. They can't.

It's completely illogical to expect women to be happy with it though.

I absolutely couldn't care less about what the OP does with their life, in the nicest possible way to the OP. It doesn't affect me. I have no need to beat other people around the head with my apparently superior status. What do you want the OP to do to explain their actions to you? They can't really say much more other than that they feel like a woman, can they? What else is there to say?

You’re right, 2b!

13.24 Veronica posts “ gray rocked”
13.28 Datun asks if Veronica is a friend of the op due to the Americanised spelling of gray
13.31, LimeKiwi responds that she’s not American, but her phone might have auto corrected to the American version.

Trouble is, Limekiwi hadn’t posted anything with “gray” in it.

Oh dear sock fail!

Have I got that wrong, lime or Veronica? Please do help me understand if I have.

I await my troll hunting deletion

Hey, I'm a mind reader.

I see.... OP doesn't think her comfy pants make her female. OP thinks that we think that OP thinks that dressing up in skirts and heels is what makes her female. OP thinks that therefore if they talk about wearing slouchy trousers we will realise they don't think they're female just because of the dresses and heels but are just like all us other females in slouchy jeans. It's supposed to be a moment of girly solidarity. They're trying to prove they're not AGP basically. Which is a bit pointless because noone said they were. I'm perfectly happy to accept that OP is a male with gender dysphoria treating that as best they can. I'm not prepared to accept they're a woman born in the wrong body, that doesn't exist.

I see... other posters are crying bullying because a lot of people have jumped on the comfy pants comment and find it amusing.

I see... A lot of people have jumped on the comfy pants comment because OP has given us nothing else to go on as to what about the way they think makes them female. That and "kind". Which is a nice twist, because posters who then come on accusing feminists of bullying are accusing them of not being female.

Hope you come back in your morning OP, ignore the accusations and answer the questions.

Am I being accused of being a man?

I'm not sure sex is an accusation, is it? More a biological fact. It's possible others might perceive you as male based upon words on a screen, but so what?
You could be either sex, as could we all, this is the internet. The only way to draw conclusions online about others is through a process of evaluating their words, consistency and integrity.
Why would you care how you are perceived online by others? If it matters so much to you that we perceive your sex correctly you may wish to demonstrate that your understanding of sex is aligned with other people's.
Either you want mutual understanding, or you want to declare unsubstantiated stuff and demand others accept it without question. Not wise on the internet.
But people perceive what they perceive. Nothing you or anyone can do about that.

Pointless bullying is what I'm objecting to, as I said.

I have seen agreement, disagreement and discussion, but no bullying (I don't know what the deleted posts said, so maybe it was them, which were then rightly, deleted).

Please - politely - can you link or paste the comments you are calling bullying, because if I at least know what you are classing as bullying, then at least we can debate something tangible.

Otherwise it's no different to saying there is too much talk of oofieboofie on this thread, when only I know what oofieboofie is.

You can read the thread if you want to see it.

ChardonnaysPrettySister I get why people took the piss out of the comfy pants thing, I still don't think it was useful or charitable though and I don't think the OP was using it as an example of feeling like a woman, just explaining that she doesn't do the whole plastered in makeup stereotypical transwoman thing and is a fairly run of the mill human being (who feels/identifies as female).

Soph yes that was what I thought.. forgot which name had posted which.

AIBU is harsher than this all the time.

It's supposed to be a moment of girly solidarity.

I remember!!! Forced Teaming.

Indeed!