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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children

721 replies

EweSurname · 07/04/2019 22:56

Looks like it's dropped!

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children
OP posts:
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AlunWynsKnee · 08/04/2019 10:12

Someone has shared it to a FB group for parents of girls with autism. Good work if that's someone here too.

Thingybob · 08/04/2019 10:12

I welcome the articles but like NonHypothetical am concerned for those kids that have been swept along by the lie they have been told often from a very young age. We now need some serious money being put into helping those kids although I fear there can never be enough to de programme some children. Years ago I saw a child's life ruined by a mother with Munchausens. That person, now an adult and a decade after being removed from the mother's care, still sees thier improved health as a remission of thier illness rather than face the prospect they were lied to and were never ill at all.

buzzbobbly · 08/04/2019 10:14

I have the strongest sense that the 'general public' is with gc women on this - on everything from gender neutral loos to women's sport, to medicalising children - that there will be a surge of public opinion against this transideology that makes a mockery of biological sex and science.

Of course they are. Just step back and observe the real world in action. Everything is built for two sexes, male and female. Once you start looking out/listening for it, it's everywhere, starting with everyday conversation and interaction, from radio DJs to funeral directors to wholesale importers to ad agencies to the Lords and Ladies of this land to bloody shower gels!

It's like turning an oil tanker that is as wide as the Atlantic, they can try and wiggle it a bit, but there's just no way it'll ever turn round.

AccioWine · 08/04/2019 10:17

Astonishing to see it all written down like that. Thanks to the Times. Let's see them try to sweep this under the carpet. Many eyes are watching now, hopefully.

LangCleg · 08/04/2019 10:17

RepealTheGRA - you'll notice he grey rocked a certain NUS rep.

Lamaha · 08/04/2019 10:20

Sorry for the ignorance but who is OJ?

Morningtoncrescent, I had a free trial and was going to cancel, but when I called the lady at the Times asked me why, and I said it was for financial reasons. And she asked me if I would like to continue and why, and I said, yes, specifically because of the Times GC coverage. And she offered me a 50% lower subscription price! It was worth continuing just to have that chat to let her know -- she said she would pass it on to editorial.
It's good to let them know that doing the right thing pays off commercially.

ZebrasAreBras · 08/04/2019 10:22

OJ = little Owen Jones. Distinguished misogynist of our times.

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 10:27

Oh to see an OJ reverse ferret on this. How glorious would that be?

"I have always been against gay conversion therapy and exploitation of the vulnerable by criminals. How dare you suggest any different!"

He's more likely to just drop the subject completely and never speak of it ever again though.

Yes. I think I would like a moment like that from OJ. And Dawn Butler and Stella Creasy on the red side. I must admit to be very keen on one coming from the LDs and Brian Paddick in particular too.

But ultimately I just want this 'done' with now and no more harm to all the people caught up in this mess. Its already gone too far.

Sadly I fear martyrs to the cause and I know what it will do to families all too well. They will be blown to bits in all manner of ways.

This doesn't end well, and any satisfaction I might get from the likes of the above being shown up and held accountable in whatever small way for their gross negligence, ultimately it really doesn't make up for knowing why they got a comeuppence. Not even close. This is happening on their watch.

The fallout out will be brutal and I will be in the middle of it. It might kill my sibling and my parents to be faced with it.

OvaHere · 08/04/2019 10:35

"In the future, when trans rights are as accepted in the UK as LGB rights are today, this front page will be used as one of the prime examples of the British media’s hateful, coordinated attacks on the trans community."

The issue with this is that young children are not and shouldn't be considered 'the trans community'. They are just children. In the same way that you cannot consider pre pubescent children as having a sexual orientation because they are children.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 08/04/2019 10:39

This isn’t the British media, it’s actual professionals speaking out. Is OJ just thick or what?

Daughterofmabel · 08/04/2019 10:40

Im pleased to see these articles but sadden to think of the damage thats already been done. Im going to send the link to all the msps Ive met with and discussed these issues. I know the share token links dont last very long though.

CigarsofthePharoahs · 08/04/2019 10:44

Well done The Times.
Well done Lucy Bannerman.

Needmoresleep · 08/04/2019 10:48

I just had a look at circulation figures, not least because a TRA was highlighting The Times circulation losses on Twitter, suggesting the GC stance was responsible. All print newspapers are showing a sharp year on year decline, but leaving out the free ones, the smallest declines were The Sunday Times (5%), The Times (6%) and the FT (4%). In contrast the Guardian has lost 11%.

The Mail apparently sells a whopping 1,186,594 copies each day, slightly behind the Sun.

www.pressgazette.co.uk/national-newsbrand-abcs-full-figures-for-february-2019/

What I had not expected though was that in terms of website reach the Guardian is close behind the Sun and Mail ( 25+ million as opposed to 29+ million) The Times, behind a paywall stands at 8+ million. They can't all be following football.

Datun · 08/04/2019 10:49

From the article:

Young lesbians considered at the bottom of the heap suddenly found they were really popular when they said they were trans.”

Another female clinician said: “We heard a lot of homophobia which we felt nobody was challenging. A lot of the girls would come in and say, ‘I’m not a lesbian. I fell in love with my best girl friend but then I went online and realised I’m not a lesbian, I’m a boy. Phew.’”

The specialists expressed concern at how little confusion over sexuality was explored when a young person requested treatment to change their body.

From Pride in London - the protest and 'transphobic hate' they reference is lesbians desperate to define themselves as female homosexuals.

Last year’s protest spread a lot of hate and created a lot of upset. We issued a formal apology and know there is more to be done.

We will not let Pride be used as a platform to spread transphobic hate again. We have learned from last year, we have listened and we are doing everything we can to avoid anything like this happening again.

Endorsed and leveraged by Susie Green:

Mermaids is working with our partners and Pride in London. We will only take part if we are satisfied that concerns have been addressed and that security and safety, especially of vulnerable people, particularly children, is paramount. Pride in London have apologised for the mistakes made last year, and the distress caused

Except Susie Green asserts:

Mermaids does not tell people what to say or do, we provide information and resources only.

And finally :

“Mermaids are always saying this is a matter of life and death. ‘Would you rather an alive boy or a dead girl?’ That Mermaids narrative is everywhere [within the service],” one former clinician claimed. “Mermaids sell themselves as a support group,” said another. “They are not. They are lobbyists. During sessions they would sit in the waiting room outside.”

LizzieSiddal · 08/04/2019 10:50

But ultimately I just want this 'done' with now and no more harm to all the people caught up in this mess. Its already gone too far.

Hear hear.

The evidence is all here for all to see. The Transing of Dc has to stop and there need stop be a full inquiry.

miffysmissingsock · 08/04/2019 10:53

"In the future, when trans rights are as accepted in the UK as LGB rights are today, this front page will be used as one of the prime examples of the British media’s hateful, coordinated attacks on the trans community."

All the lols. This page may make it's way to the independent inquiry into child sex abuse.

buzzbobbly · 08/04/2019 10:55

Still nothing from Stonewall, except a job ad earlier this morning.

For an organisation usually so vocal, their silence is very informative,

Fazackerley · 08/04/2019 10:56

I like to imagine them all scurrying about to lots of little cross meetings. I'm interested to hear what they have to say. I think the line about young lesbians no longer feeling welcome at Pride is so sad and very important.

R0wantrees · 08/04/2019 10:56

Someone is agreeing with Owen and says that you can't argue with experts. The experts who have quit their jobs you mean?

One of the Times articles today is by Carl Heneghan

He is the Editor in Chief BMJ Evidence Based Medicine & Professor of Evidence Based Medicine, University of Oxford

February 2019 Andrew Gillingham Times: 'Governor quits ‘blinkered’ Tavistock clinic'
(extract)
"A governor of the NHS trust that runs England’s only gender clinic for children has resigned in protest at its “blinkered” and “one-sided” response to doctors who had raised the alarm about “woefully inadequate” care.

Marcus Evans, a consultant psychotherapist at the Tavistock and Portman trust with three decades’ experience, told The Sunday Times that the trust had said things that were “not true”, had created a “climate of fear” and was trying to “dismiss or undermine” concerns raised by its own clinicians.

Twenty-five other clinicians at the trust have signed a letter protesting against how it had handled the concerns of medical staff. The 25 said the attitude of managers was “not acceptable”. (continues)
thread with link
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3515980-Times-article-Governor-quits-blinkered-Tavistock-clinic

I believe the levels of whistle-blowing may be without parallel.

Any journalist, politician, person with influence & responsibility in the public sector refusing to listen to the Safeguarding & Duty of Care concerns is putting themself in a very serious position.
The serious concerns of Safeguarding & Duty of Care failures towards children are not going to go away.

Tara Hewitt is, I believe, employed in a managerial Diversity role by an NHS Trust & advises both Higher Education establishments & Social Care:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374926-What-influence-does-TELI-have-on-government-public-services-and-charities-policies-Co-founders-include-Jess-Bradley-Tara-Hewitt-and-Michelle-Hudson

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 08/04/2019 11:02

One of the Times articles today is by Carl Heneghan

He is the Editor in Chief BMJ Evidence Based Medicine & Professor of Evidence Based Medicine, University of Oxford

This needs repeating. Wtf is OJ on.

WarmCoffee · 08/04/2019 11:03

I put on BBC News channel to see if there was any coverage, and Victoria Derbyshire was interviewing a trans grime rapper (FTM). He was talking about being called a lesbian as an insult in primary school - and ultimately decided to transition. Obviously this person could be trans, I am not doubting that, but is it interesting that

  1. Being accused of being a lesbian as a negative was part of their backstory, considering the “gay conversions” fears that clinicians working in the clinic have, and
  2. This very positive trans story (brave etc) happened to be aired this morning? Did anyone catch the beginning of the interview to see if VD referenced the Times article or not? Perhaps just a coincidence?
OrchidInTheSun · 08/04/2019 11:10

I don't think he or any of his legions of loyal fans have actually read the articles. They won't because they block anyone who questions the narrative

buzzbobbly · 08/04/2019 11:11

Fazackerley I like to imagine them all scurrying about to lots of little cross meetings. I'm interested to hear what they have to say. I think the line about young lesbians no longer feeling welcome at Pride is so sad and very important.

Also no comment on this from Pride London or Peter Tatchell.

In fact, the whole damned (and I mean that sincerely) lot of them seem to be keeping very very very quiet about this. I don't wonder why.

RepealTheGRA · 08/04/2019 11:21

RedToothBrush Flowers

morningtoncrescent62 · 08/04/2019 11:23

Lamaha thanks for the heads-up - I'll contact the Times. Even if it doesn't result in reduced subscription it'd be good to let them know why I'm staying with them.