Not women only shelters.....

[alwaysreadthelabel]

Sorry for the fail link but just read this and I find it unbelievable that people still don't see the issue with this. Words fail me.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6894599/When-man-called-Mark-locked-threatening-kill-mother-child.html

A male who genuinely ‘feels like a woman’ would, say go down the medical route, no?

A male who feels like they want to present as a woman - and has no medical intervention - well they are still male. Did their penis not still function?

Of these there are 2 types: those who know they aren’t actually a real woman and respect/even really like women.

The others are either deluded that they are women and are outraged at the world who says they aren’t, or just don’t ‘get it’ - women don’t generally stomp over other women to get what they want for themselves. It’s always about ‘me’ isn’t it - not fighting for anyone else (well, saying that, I’ve seen some very worrying ‘let kids do drag/trans).

We need to get back to the distinction between transsexuals and transvestites. The whole gender thing is a big red herring here. It allows so much bad faith and bad behaviour.

Women and children are being forced to travel up to 600miles for a place in a shelter. Other women with a lot of children or complex needs don't get a space.

Specialist services for particular at risk groups (religious minorities for example) have closed due to lack of funding. General shelters do not have the expertise to help them properly. This is harming them. And this has been made worse by forcing them out of refugees where men might be for both trauma and cultural reasons.

On top of this trans victims of domestic abuse are not served best by a general shelter either. They also have very specialist needs and really need specialist services to deal with them.

The reason they are going to a shelter is for domestic abuse and for support from people in a similar situation and can empathise with their situation. It is not for validation.

If women are having to travel for all space at all, I can not see why a centralised specialist service for the trans community isn't the best option for everyone concerned.

All this is, is ultimately a cost cutting problem for executives and politicians who don't give a shit and don't understand the nature of problems.

The net result is EVERYONE who NEEDS these services is ultimately being failed. But the people who don't use these services get to feel good about themselves because they get liberal identity points for their score card.

But the people who don't use these services get to feel good about themselves because they get liberal identity points for their score card.

YY.

Absolutely to hands being tied by funding criteria. This has been imposed from the top down.

While thats true, its also true that the women only organisations that were consulted and should have spoken out for women, didn't.

The other month (sorry don’t have a link to it) the BBC news did an interesting article about how difficult it is for women with disabilities to find a place in a refuge. Their abuser is often their main carer and refuges aren’t geared up to look after them.

Violent male bodied domestic abusers seem to be welcomed with open arms.

Fuck this shit and I see Ruth Hunt as an absolute traitor. She’s resigned because she knows exactly the fucking horror show she’s created and she doesn’t have the bottle to own up and try and sort out this utter disaster.

Any domestic violence refuge that did try to turn away a man who claims to be a woman (because of a violent criminal history or because of aggressive and threatening behaviour when he turns up at the refuge) will then get sued by him. Guaranteed. It is a reliable income stream for grifters.

Look at that person who is suing numerous women for refusing to wax male genitals. It is quite the industry.

The upshot is that the senior managers are terrified of being sued and will just wave in all men and hope that they don't assault the women there. And then the inevitable will happen.

torontosun.com/2014/02/26/predator-who-claimed-to-be-transgender-declared-dangerous-offender/wcm/fc2c70f0-b1a1-41e2-85db-bec9d0012ce5

Not sure about DV refuges, but transwomen can certainly access their own rape crisis services:
"SurvivorsUK was established as a service for male survivors, however we are an inclusive service and welcome anyone who identifies as male, trans, non-binary, has identified as male in the past, or anyone who feels that we are the right fit for them."
www.survivorsuk.org/ways-we-can-help/

But the people who don't use these services get to feel good about themselves because they get liberal identity points for their score card

I wasn't trying to pointscore. I was just trying to make a point about the ridiculousness of the situation.

I've asked for my original post to be deleted. Sorry.

I could cry at all the hard work women (the cunty variety) have done over the past few decades. Offering their homes, fundraising, petitions, time and dedication. And for what? So Men could yet again ruin everything.
Has there ever been a bigger women’s hating organisation than Stonewall?

Women and children are being forced to travel up to 600miles for a place in a shelter. Other women with a lot of children or complex needs don't get a space.

Precisely.

While I have great sympathy for gay men and trans males who have no services, it really has nothing to do with the women's sector. The LGBT sector is awash with funding. The cash is there.

Even on this thread, too much room is taken up by what solutions we can find for people who aren't women, while about half of women who need these services aren't getting them. I'd rather concentrate on the women.

(Sorry, Inrit, nothing personal. I hope your life gets better.)

I've asked for my original post to be deleted. Sorry.

There was nothing wrong with it, it was valuable to this conversation. You don’t need to feel bad about it at all.

StephsCaddy
Yep, me too. Who was that old school feminist who paid for her own house back in the day, and her husband (legally) stole the deeds?
This situation is the same as that situation.

WA themselves say that 90 women and 90 children are turned away every day for lack of space. They have no excuse for making shelters mixed sex.
www.womensaid.org.uk/what-we-do/campaigning-and-influencing/campaign-with-us/sos/

Transgenderism is a men's sexual "rights" activism .. they assume the "right" to behave sexually in any way they choose, in any place they choose and at any time they choose. It is about their sense of supremacy with regard to men's sexual arousal, which is enhanced when they can achieve this by way of violating women's and girls' boundaries.

I wasn't trying to pointscore. I was just trying to make a point about the ridiculousness of the situation.

It was most definitely not aimed at you.

Please don't delete your post.

I think you are being failed.

I wasn't trying to pointscore. I was just trying to make a point about the ridiculousness of the situation. It came across as you wanted it to. We all agree, you are being failed in precisely the same way and for the same reason as women are.

As has already been said, we are exactly the same women who would march with you in order to obtain the correct services for you. That only sounds ridiculous if you are a TRA chanting TWAW!

Hang around, keep talking. We are listening.

Please don’t ask for your post to be deleted Inritatum

I’m as hardline as they get, transwomen are men, pronouns are the thin edge of the wedge, the GRA needs to be repealed, I don’t believe ‘trans’ would even be a thing if society stopped rigidly enforcing gender stereotypes and I STILL think that people like you deserve specialist support and I STILL complain to my MP that as well as this being shit for safeguarding of children and women’s rights it’s also thoroughly shit for transsexuals.

Your insight is useful because it proves that Stonewall have just become a men’s sexual rights movement.

But the people who don't use these services get to feel good about themselves because they get liberal identity points for their score card

You need those services. No one here for a moment doesn't think so or wouldn't stand up for your right to access them, exactly as you've explained your need. Not women's resources but TWs resources.

It's fools like Mordaunt, who will never be in the position of being trapped in domestic abuse with nowhere else to go, who is collecting the virtue cookies for their score card. That is who that comment referred to. It is the woke ilk who don't care about individuals and just the political glorious revolution that people are angry with.

Inritatum
Another echoing not getting your post deleted. THIS is the conversation we should all be having in public. Women have been last on the list in our society for ever, and no-one knows better than us what it is like to live under the constant threat of male violence. If we had had the chance, we would have been on transwomen's side in supporting access to good quality healthcare and services. Instead, we are subjected to the very same male violence for trying to protect our safety that we have always suffered. And now we have a situation where no-one is safe. I keep hoping that the voices of sanity will emerge through the toxicity and we can move forward. Your voice is important - you are literally living with the consequences of this whole mess. Imagine if Stonewall and the rest were funding provision - you could be safe in a refuge somewhere getting all the support you need.

From Women's Aid:

www.womensaid.org.uk/two-thirds-women-refuges-children-mothers-day-domestic-abuse/

Two thirds of women in domestic violence refuges have their children with them.

Example rules for a domestic violence refuge:

dundeewomensaid.co.uk/refuge.php

"While staying in refuge there are some rules which you will have to abide by. These include:

No male visitors (this includes male family members over the age of 16)"

Here's another example:

www.pendle.gov.uk/info/20031/community_safety/48/domestic_violence/3

"The following people will NOT be offered a place at the refuge:

Any male aged 14 or over (we would also have to consider whether it was appropriate to offer a place where a male aged 13 or over formed part of the family unit)"

Not sure how they square that with allowing male people in the refuge if these males want to stay at the refuge.

They don't actually say.

If anyone wants to complain to St Mungos and WA, I've written a template letter to both on this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3553191-Whats-the-bloody-point-in-fighting-the-GRA-changes?pg=2

So incredibly sad. The irony that this is someone who was mandated to go on a domestic abuse programme as a perpetrator, yet is now inside the place meant to protect people from this.

We need a tonne of men to self identify with zero changes to themselves, self identification is enough, and enter the refuges in vast numbers. As horrendously traumatising as this would be, I wonder if it is the only way these policies will change.

I actually feel for St Mungo's and these charities though in a way. They are caught between a rock and a hard place. Look at where their funding comes from. St Mungo's do not have to do this (let anyone who self identifies in) under law, but the pressure on them - for their funding - must be huge. I guess they're worried they could fold if they don't act like this, as they could have their funding removed. This whole situation is nuts.

Inritatum, is there any way you could write to Stonewall and ask for emergency funding, explaining your situation and saying that you cannot use women's refuge facilities on the grounds that it makes you deeply uncomfortable to do so?

They might listen.

Stonewall is so monolithic

The fact there are only NINE pre moderated comments on the article is telling in itself. DM readers can get frothed up in their thousands about lollipop ladies or grass cutting on a Sunday.

You can imagine the ones that haven't been approved.

This is the important background & context to the St Mungos service in OP

Homeless Link March 2018
'Women’s Hidden Homelessness
Women’s homelessness is under-reported and frequently linked to experiences of abuse.'
(extract)
"In 2014, East London Housing Partnership set up the East London Women’s Project (ELWP), a pilot funded for 18 months by the then DCLG and delivered by St Mungo’s. ELWP provided supported accommodation for women sleeping rough with multiple disadvantage, who did not fall within the local authority duty to provide accommodation. Support was provided by an all-female specialist team in a woman-only house in the sub-region. ELWP assisted women to move on from their experience of rough sleeping and re-establish themselves, where possible to return to work, education or training.

At the point of referral primary support needs were:

Substance use 65%
Mental health 77%
Offending behaviour 58%
Domestic abuse 73%
The majority of women had multiple support needs. Before accessing ELWP, women had been squatting, sleeping rough, in prison, living in insecure accommodation, sofa surfing and for most women - a combination of these.

Anecdotal feedback from staff was that women who had not disclosed abuse at the point of referral, later disclosed violence or other forms of abuse, often extending back to childhood. For women using ELWP, rough sleeping was a symptom of the problem rather than the problem itself.

‘Most if not all of the women had a history of domestic violence and for many, this was the catalyst for their homelessness.’ ELWP Evaluation, 2016" (continues)

www.wired-gov.net/wg/news.nsf/articles/Womens+Hidden+Homelessness+01032018092500?open