How to get school to back off.

[mouseymummy]

My 14yo dd is struggling to figure out where she fits in at the moment, she's more of a "tomboy" but will happily put on a playsuit and leggings etc etc.... You know. Usual stuff kids go through as they try to figure out what they like and suits them.

However, she's been hanging around with a girl who wants to transition, her parents are very vocal about it all and buying her a binder and demanding her school etc refer to her as her "true name" as well as other things.

I've explained to my dd that you can be a woman and wear jeans and a flannel shirt, get your hair cut short etc... I'm always wearing jeans and tees. I wear "work boot" style boots as they're comfy and I have a condition that causes my joints to be loose so they're practical too. I've explained that you can be whoever you want to be. She's just not understanding how you can be just yourself. She's very much falling into stereotypes and saying how I dress dd6 in dresses etc... Thus is what she chose when getting dressed that morning, she had jeans on the day before.

School is not helping this.

They've told me that I'm "damaging her" by refusing to take her to the doctors and persueing a "transition" she's 14! I'm seriously waiting for a phone call to social services for not taking her to the doctor as its apparently "emotional abuse" ffs.

Ive ok'd her getting her hair cut short and we went shopping a couple of weeks ago for her to get some clothes she felt comfortable in, she chose leggings, a couple of pairs of jeans, a hoodie and a couple of slogan tees from the mens section in primark (they have a lot better slogan style tees than the women's section)

She's asked for a binder and I've refused. This has all started since school told her she could (her exact quote) "become a proper boy and do all the boy stuff" I asked her what is "boy stuff" she had no answer.

Schools safeguarding team (yes, really) rang me to tell me that they will be referring to her as her "boy name" and when I call up I will have to say I'm the parent of said boy. When I questioned this and asked if they had found anyone else with parental responsibility to OK this as I hadn't (they don't have her dad's number as we're not together and he works away so wouldn't be able to collect her in an emergency) they responded with no but this is what they do when a kid comes and "officially self identifies".

OK, if my kid decides when she's older to crack on n transition, fine, I'll support and be there.

But at 14???? I refuse to be part of it until she is better prepared in life and actually understand what the processes entails etc.

What can I do here??

Not a mum but I was a tomboy and very uncomfortable with my rapidly developing body at that age (I wore a minimizer bra - not a binder - but fortunately I predate this whole trans trend and never was I told I must be a boy as a result of who I was and my discomfort). I think you are handling things very well, personally.

I assume you are in UK? I am not but reading here it seems like many of the schools there have accepted the Mermaids “guidance” without question. As for the school, I would be asking them for a written copy of their “policies” (dollars to donuts they are from Mermaids or the like), point them to the “watch and wait” guidelines advocated by NHS, and send them a copy of the Transgender Trend pack (also, there are resources for parents on their website).

Also ask them if they are aware the governor of the Tavistock Foundation just stepped down announcing ethical concerns about the social and campaign pressure on youth to rush into transition, if they know 80% of youth desist through puberty, and that testosterone for example has severe lifelong effects on a teen girls young body - even if she later stops, to vaginal atrophy, to increased risk of uterine cancer meaning many need to get early hysterectomies.

"I will check all links posted and will be calling to check the policies too."

Don't call them, put it in writing.

Oh heck cabt anyone see beyond the gender issues!!

The OP has said she cant just change schools due to behave issues. The right place to start is what those behaviour issues are.

If i had a child behaviourally challenged enough that the school they were the only school that would take them, id be working with them

That doesnt mean agreeing with them. But callung the lawyers wouldn't be the first words out my mouth either.

Id be asking how my D childs attitude was being impacted at school be these considerations. Id be offering to obtain counselling either privately or through the GP. Id be making it clear you would not be considering puberty blockers or binders until ypu had solid research into their long term use.

Then hang tight and wait for everything to calm down

Excuse the spelling and typos. But i think you're getting some really bum advice

I am so sick of this shit. It blows safeguarding out of the window. I'd take her out of that school, or if you want her to stay, then take it all the way. Complain to ofsted, and get a solicitor. Set a precedent that other schools will have to follow. Set up a fundraiser if you need to and let the outcome be determined in court. This abuse of our children needs to stop.

OP.
How awful. There's so much in this, so a few quick ideas: Make a written record of all communications you've had with school and (without alerting daughter) find out who she's been talking to - dates, times and people spoken to. Any time you have further conversations with the school, get full details of names, position etc and make notes wherever possible. Keep these safe.

Draft a letter to the school being clear that you are fully supportive of you child's wishes to explore gender issues. Emphasise that she is a child and explain that you are concerned that she is too young to make an informed choice about this and that you are following a 'watchful waiting' process. Send this direct to the Head.
Ask for a copy of her school records, including details of all discussions with your daughter about her sex / gender confusions by adults. I'd consider advising them that these details are necessary for any future legal action that you might take against the school. Remind them that 'Working Together' states that professionals should work in partnership with parents and not encourage children to be alienated from them. Be clear that that they have no right to change her name without your consent.

You could send a copy of this to them:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6762379/Former-governor-says-fears-hurrying-children-transgender-path.html

Make an appointment with the Head and go through this with them. Ask for details of the school's insurers so that, in the future, you will know who to claim against. If possible take someone with you to make a record of what is being said. The school need to be reminded of their boundaries - it is not their role to transition your child. It is not their role to undermine your relationship with your daughter.

Start monitoring her online presence asap. The trick is (as she's a teenager) to allow her as much flexibility and freedom as possible to explore her identity while ensuring that she doesn't do anything that is long term harmful.

Make a real effort to do lots with your daughter. Give her lots of positive attention for anything - shopping trips, the cinema, watch a film together, make sure she's engaged with hobbies, sports, anything that helps her sense of her real self.

Finally - Contact Transgender trend for advice. Good luck.

Mermaids conduct is very questionable and an organisation such as themselves should not be allowed to give advice to schools.

GreenEggsHamandChips that would be because the OP's situation is already beyond the point where your suggestions would work.

GreenEggsHamandChips makes some important points.
It is quite possible that your child is suddenly getting lots of positive attentions for being trans and therefore 'special' from teachers after a long time of negative attention because of her behaviour issues.
That's why all this must be seen in the context of the child. You want the school to back off - to let your daughter explore her identity without forcing her down any route.

To all those of you suggesting contacting Ofsted, I'd say don't bother for 2 reasons

1. If you have a complaint then unless it's serious safeguarding (and there's a pattern of complaints), Ofsted will kick it back and advise you to use the school's complaint procedure

2)I feel (as someone who works with school leaders at all levels) Ofsted are actually pushing the Transgender debate. I was at a recent briefing where the protected characteristics were discussed. Firstly we were told that gender was a protected characteristic! I challenged that and put the presenter on the spot. Eventually they backed down and said sex not gender. But were pleased to put me back in my place say that whilst gender was not a protected characteristic, gender id was.
I asked if they meant self-id or id with GRC. Cue much bluster and the advice to go and google it.

So I asked a Lead Inspector at the next opportunity I got. They said it was self-id. We did have quite a discussion about this, what was their definition of self-id. Eventually the Lead inspector did say that they worried that we were pushing children down a road without the correct thought, but this was just their opinion and Ofsted would, in school inspections, look to make sure that in all cases gender identification was a protected characteristic.

Ofsted would, in school inspections, look to make sure that in all cases gender identification was a protected characteristic

surely that is MASSIVE?! Self ID is not law and it is not a protected characteristic!

Solicitor
Head teacher
Governors
Journalist

In that order ^^

I'm really appalled.

When I needed help with communicating with the school I got support from my local Parent Partnership (who liase with the educational welfare officer).

At that point my son was still waiting for diagnosis, so I can’t see why they wouldn’t be able to help with this situation? My contact at PP was a very sensible older lady - knew the local school system (and the law) backwards and was definitely not woke. She was brilliant. Worth exploring.

Agreed MurielPritchett.
Ofsted and the DfE have been trained by the trans lobby groups and are singularly disinterested in the welfare of girls in schools (just look at the disgraceful stats about rape and sexual assaults in schools in recent years).

The trans agenda is being pushed by some exceptionally powerful and creepy senior people in the DfE / civil service / NHS and I'm afraid it won't be until the wheels start coming off and reported in the press that this will change.

Your Rights:

Definition of parental responsibility:

In family law, parental responsibility (PR) is defined in section 3(1) of the Children Act 1989 (CA 1989) as all the rights, duties, powers, responsibilities and authority which by law a parent of a child has in relation to a child and his property. This means that those with PR:
Have the power to make important decisions that affect their child's upbringing, unless there is a court order in place specifying otherwise.
Are entitled to information about their child, such as pupil reports, unless there is a court order in place preventing such disclosure.
Are entitled to be informed about meetings involving the child, for example, a governors' meeting on the child's exclusion.

tmsnrt.rs/2LAUzrO

@RiverTam

In my experience, ofsted have been raising this as equality concern since 2014.

A primary school I was working with had an inspection visit led by an HMI. The HMI asked some children what would happen if a boy wanted to come to school in a girls dress? What if a boy wanted to do something that the girls did? Actually, I think at that point that was a valid questioning line; certainly I'd want any child to be able to do whatever they wanted and to be constricted by things being perceived as boys/girls things. I was impressed they wanted to challenge gender stereotypes.

However, now we seem to have gone backwards and are reinforcing them

Eventually they backed down and said sex not gender. But were pleased to put me back in my place say that whilst gender was not a protected characteristic, gender id was.

If you are in this situation again the protected characteristic is gender reassignment which was created to cover adults who undergo the whole process and have a GRC. Because those things cannot happen until someone is at least 18 then all under 18's are self ID only which currently is not a legal position.

What boy stuff???

The only things that were separated by sex at school were

PE -who's going to take responsibility if they let a girl play full contact rugby and she gets hurt or worse and yes I know there are very small boys but same size doesn't mean same strength between the sexes.

Swimming - teenage boys with a topless girl? Girl swims in t shirt? Getting changed and maybe showered completely naked in with the boys?

Changing rooms and toilets - given the level of sexual assaults that happen without mixed sex facilities who's going to want to add that into the mix.

(Unofficially) my IT class at GCSE - 1:5 girl to boy ratio one fully day and one half day and most lessons other days were similar and I didn't get on with the other girls really so they weren't really part of most of my days. No way would I want to be the only girl in a boys school, the locker room type talk is vile and I ended up pulling a few of them up on it a few times.

MurielPritchett Jesus.

@truthis

Ofsted and the DfE have been trained by the trans lobby groups

Agreed. After I'd challenged the trainer about gender-id, i went to speak to them. I'd challenged in a large audience and was fearful of being called a bigot outside of the room. The Trainer's response was that we needed Stonewall to come down and do some training for us all.

Hopefully no-one would give actual hormones to a 14yo but they could be given blockers which will disrupt puberty already started. Even Tavistock head honcho Polly Carmichael is in record saying we don't know the long term effects and are prescribing them under pressure.

Gender identity has no definition in law and is not a protected characteristic.

Gender reassignment is the protected characteristic. It also has a definition in law.

Just play this out for a second. If I had a gender identity*, what if it was that of a properly submissive, timid and helpless woman who felt extreme distress at being forced to share with males. Any place that has policies allowing males into female spaces is therefore discriminating against me twice - on the basis of my sex as well as gender identity. So how would they deal with that?

*Or whatever your identity includes, there is after all, no definition of what it entails in international human rights law or domestic law.

Gender reassignment starts with someone who says they identify as a member of the opposite sex and may include those someone who choose to embrace the sex stereotypes of the opposite sex and appear, behave and present accordingly as well as those who choose cosmetic surgeries and medical substances to attempt to change their physiology to more closely imitate the physiology of a member of the opposite sex. Apart from the mere self-identifier who only states intentions, the gender reassignment of the latter two is a tangible thing, it's external and therefore quantifiable. And even the one yet unchanged has stated an intention, an action they seek to pursue.

Gender identity is all about intangible, internal feelings and thoughts, that may or may not be expressed.

Stonewall are long overdue being taken to task for their role in this considering they receive tax payer money.

The phrase egregious overreach could have be coined just for them.

I'm afraid that I would no longer trust the school and would do everything possible to get your DD out of that environment. The risks to physical, mental and reproductive health of pursuing transition at 14 are far too high. If the school is pushing this, standing up to the indoctrination at home will be difficult.

If removing DD is totally impossible, ask your GP to confirm in writing that she does not have a medical diagnosis that would support the school's approach. Does she have a social worker or any other professionals involved due to her behaviour? If so, get them to write letters providing context, too.

Ask a solicitor to tell the school to back right off. Make it clear in writing that the school does not have parental permission to go down this road. That they are taking responsibility for this decision and that you will hold them accountable.

Get her dad involved if possible. Ask him to write too.

Keep everything in writing. Good luck.

@older

What boy stuff???

This was primary so they talked about boys who wanted to play with dolls etc. The HMI wanted to make sure that it was ok for boys to play with toys that were traditionally thought of as girls, dolls etc and that it was ok for girls to play with things traditionally thought of as boys toys

@Ova

If you are in this situation again the protected characteristic is gender reassignment which was created to cover adults who undergo the whole process and have a GRC

all very well in theory, but when you're in a highly charged situation of an inspection, it's not the time to challenge an inspector. i was once threatened with Special Measures because I didn't agree with the inspector- "If you can't see why what you're saying is wrong, then you can't lead this school properly"

It's ok saying but you can complain or appeal afterwards. How many inspections have you ever seen overturned and how many schools have the £1000s need to go down that process. I'm not playing Russian roulette with any school leader's career.