There are genuine transgender people - but they are quiet.

[andyoldlabour]

I found this on KF, and it shows that there are transgender people with empathy, who do not agree with the way very masculine transgender people are treating women.
It came as a surprise to me, but also was very heartening.
If they were all like this person then there wouldn't be any problems, so it has confirmed my beliefs that certain people are not really transgender but using it for their own nefarious reasons.

twitter.com/kinesis/status/1062885504541110272

I think kinesis might post here.

I'm not good at Twittering and it took me a while to find out what she's actually saying. But here's the whole thing in a threadreader:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1062872297143336960.html

There is a trans woman from Edinburgh who regularly writes to newspapers about the trans rights agenda. Her letters are always thoughtful, moderate and respectful of other people's concerns and she is clearly perturbed by the damage she feels is being done by extreme TRAs.

In my workplace, I've had dealings with a couple of dozen people who said they were transgender or transsexual. Two were just like her (and they had my utmost sympathy and support). The rest...were not.

I have a close friend who is a transsexual (their words) who disassociates from the TRA because they are making her life more and more difficult. Prior to this latest trend she lived quietly minding her own business. She has experienced true transphobia that nearly killed her and surprise surprise it wasn’t from women!

There are a lot of gender critical trans folk out there but they are silenced as truscum and dismissed as traitors.

I am very glad to know the lovely transpeople I have met over the years. They are people who just want to go about their lives and never asked for this kind of trouble-making. This vile brand of transactivism is coming from some very nasty people. I have no doubt that there are many among those TRAs who are seriously deluded, affected by personality disorders, and all kinds of other complications. Their misogyny is off the scale - these men hate women, because they want to be us and they can't.

I will continue to love and respect my rainbow of family and friends, but I will never bow to the demand that women give up their hard-won sex-based rights, or that we be forced to call a man a woman. I'd rather go to jail.

I was on Mumsnet a while ago as were several friends of mine but we all left because we felt attacked.

Transsexual people are not the enemy. I for one openly condemn the transgender umbrella, the idea that trans women are women and transgender women in sport.

There is no question in my mind that the current transgender agenda undermines womens rights and needs to be stopped.

Gender Dysphoria is a medical condition that needs properly assessed and diagnosed and significant psychological support given. Only IF all other avenues fail than transition is an option with appropriate clinical support. Self identifying fetishists, AGPs and the gender confused do not represent what it means to be transsexual or what transsexual people stand for.

I am proud truscum and will happily stand with any women in protecting womens rights.

Seven Hex writes really well about all this. She's hoping to continue to gather momentum against the woolly trans TRA tide.

https://sevenhex.com/

Sorry you feel attacked transexual

And Rose of Dawn of course.

Don't know about quiet but Miranda Yardley's a cool individual.

I'm sure plenty of transsexuals/transgender people are genuine in the sense they genuinely have dysphoria or genuinely feel they have a gendered soul, even if they don't agree with my view that you can't change sex and gender is a bit all round pointless and confining. And plenty of transsexuals who do broadly agree with my views whether loudly or quietly.

I don't believe any of them are genuinely the opposite sex. I do believe all of them should live free from abuse and discrimination. I don't believe acknowledgement of biological reality constitutes abuse or discrimination.

I was on Mumsnet a while ago as were several friends of mine but we all left because we felt attacked. That is so fucking annoying!

Yes, I am probably one of the women who would no longer pretend not to notice a transwoman in a female space. Not your fault but it is a fucking shame that TRA behaviours have made this so much more of an Us vs Them 3-ring circus!

I want a TARDIS and I am taking the woke, all TRAs and MRA twats back to the 1980s... live through that and spout your shite successfully? Think not!

I don't believe any of them are genuinely the opposite sex.

After I came out as transsexual I had a lot of blood testing in regards to HRT. I found out I have Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia .... I'm intersex even though my body is essentially Male.

My point is I had no clue I had the medical issue and always considered my issues to be entirely psychological.

I struggle now with figuring out what I am.

I think that (not using these terms to cause offence, but in desperate attempt for clarity) traditional transsexuals are one of the groups who have been totally trampled all over by the TRA activists. Along, of course, with lesbians, gay children, autistic children, and women.

traditional transsexuals are one of the groups who have been totally trampled all over by the TRA

As a traditional transsexual I quite agree and my traditional TS friends would also agree !

This may be controversial but I see TRA/modern TG agenda as a common enemy of both women and transsexuals. I know some feel that TG and TS are still biologically male and therefore further distinction is irrelevant.

traditional transsexuals are one of the groups who have been totally trampled all over by the TRA

Traditional transsexuals have also been at the forefront of tra. Lots of transsexuals have been working hard to erase women's rights.

It's not black and white.

I am proud truscum and will happily stand with any women in protecting womens rights.

Including not using spaces or services intended for women, I presume?

@transsexualNOTtransgender has the right of it. I'm gutted that MN is unwelcoming to true TS people, the TRAs trample on everyone.

I've followed Kinesis for a while, along with the lovely Fionne Orlander, and they're both an oasis of sense in a desert of TRA bollocks.

*I am proud truscum and will happily stand with any women in protecting womens rights.

Including not using spaces or services intended for women, I presume?*

And THIS is why transsexual people dont feel they can be on mumsnet. You are pushing me into saying something where there isnt a simple answer and then I'll get attacked and told that Im just like the rest and that I have an MRA agenda if you dont like my reply.

So I am going to decline to answer such a loaded question.

As far as I've seen MN is only unwelcoming to transsexuals if they insist on using women's facilities regardless of the potential impact on women. And even then they are often applauded for specific actions or opinions even if other actions and opinions are seen with caution e.g. Debbie Hayton. People like Fionne and MY as far as I have seen are very much admired. People who have completely opposite views are still on the whole welcomed and encouraged to debate but debate is rugged and there's no truck given for crying victimisation at every turn and refusing to answer the difficult questions.

And THIS is why transsexual people dont feel they can be on mumsnet. You are pushing me into saying something where there isnt a simple answer and then I'll get attacked and told that Im just like the rest and that I have an MRA agenda if you dont like my reply

It’s not a loaded question though. It’s a valid and important one. Women’s spaces are for women and girls - human females - not for people who think they have some inner feminine essence that makes them an honorary woman. You’re claiming to be an ally and then dodging an important issue clearly showing you’re someone who wants to be treated as special.

Whilst we separate into transsexual and transgender we continue to cede space to people who aren’t born female. There is no difference between the different kind of trans - this is a manipulative appeal to female socialisation and it stinks.

Oops, that was a cross post not directed at any particular poster transsexual.

Good luck persuading the general public on that. A transwoman is a transwoman to most. I was very struck by Leanne Mills article on the cold hard reality and have the utmost respect for her views. Debbie Hayton as well, always calm and pragmatic. Those on the other hand acting like self righteous men will be treated as such however they 'identify'.

I'm don't like forcing people into a totalitarian position.

There are many issues where I hold an opinion but am prepared to recognise exceptions. I'm also prepared to agree to a utilitarian compromise.

Focus on common ground- eventually no one fully agrees with anyone else.

"I was on Mumsnet a while ago as were several friends of mine but we all left because we felt attacked." That's a shame. The way I see it, there's a lot of misunderstanding about the purpose of the feminism board. (I don't know if you mean the whole MN or just here?) When women on this board centre women and assert their existing right to sex-based services and spaces, I can understand why transsexuals might feel attacked. But: women's rights are currently under threat, and rights are not about feelings. We're in this mess precisely because feelings were prioritised over fact. So please don't feel that you're being attacked because you are transsexual, and please report inappropriate posts because discussion here is generally very civil, and we should keep it that way.
"Transsexual people are not the enemy." Of course not. I don't like the words "enemy" and "ally" anyway, they're meaningless in this debate. It's shocking how some transsexuals who don't toe the Stonewall line have been treated, but the "old-school TS vs new transgender" distinction is false. Some of the most influential people who are lobbying the government to remove single-sex exemptions from the Equality Act are transsexuals who have had a GRC for years.
The Equality and Human Rights Commission seems to be fully on board with erasing the term "transsexual". I'm not sure it can be reclaimed, but I think there would be a lot of public support for a transsexual-led campaign on retaining and reinforcing the gatekeeping process.

You are pushing me into saying something where there isnt a simple answer These days there is a simple answer though. The days of women acquiescing and looking the other way, no matter how uncomfortable they felt are coming to a close. MN is just at the forefront of that!

This is the space you can hear that message, answer it without the loaded emotional reaction to a face to face interaction and women can discus it with you and any/every other transowman who engages without the emotional blackmai, the play nice social interdict.

If you can hear There is no difference between the different kind of trans - this is a manipulative appeal to female socialisation and it stinks. and interact with that message without any additonal emotional appeal to femal socialisation then maybe we can all work together to work out what can and cannot be done to end this truly weird situation.

I think you'll find that this is what women have been asking for since all of this pratting about began!

It horrified me that the rest is the rand population are sort of being erased out of the public arena and silenced by those with the "mermaids" agenda

I keep telling my DC that trans is an umbrella term and that narcissistic sector do not speak for all!