Panorama 25 Feb 20.30hrs: Trans Kids: Why Medicine Matters **Thread title edited by MNHQ**

[TimeLady]

"More young people than ever are exploring their gender identity. Last year, two and a half thousand under-eighteens were referred to NHS England's gender identity clinics for support. Some are hoping to get access to potentially irreversible treatments as soon as they can. Doctors are divided about the best way to help."

"Dr Faye Kirkland investigates how much we understand about the care being offered to transgender children."

It's the arrogance of being above the law.

Did anyone else watch the BBC2 series Hospital? That highlighted the chronic underfunding of the NHS and the strict criteria. There was a boy with Cerabal Palsy who had to fund his own operation on his spine as he was graded as stage 4. He couldn’t walk and his muscles were too stiff. NHS wouldn’t fund his operation as they couldn’t evidence that he would walk and so it was deemed as non beneficial. Even though it would still improve his life dramatically by enabling him to stand for a short while so he didn’t need a hoist, he could feed himself and his speech improved. His family had to raise £25,000 for the operation which vastly improved his, and his family’s life - all because it wouldn’t give the outcome of walking.

I’ve got a daughter with a rare ‘orphan’ illness who is treated on the kids cancer ward (same treatments). So pleased we now have a proton zapper in Manchester - my friend’s daughter had to travel to Germany for treatment in the summer holidays (NHS funded, but very disruptive and expensive for the family, as they had to be there for quite a period).

Boys with ALL (one of the most common forms of Leukaemia) have to have a whole extra years worth of chemo, because biological sex differences are real, goddamnit!

There are a number of live studies for childhood cancers that U.K. kids can theoretically participate in (ie, experimental treatments) but they are incredibly carefully supervised and parents/home hospital consultants are well-informed and can pull kids at any time, returning to standard protocols.

These studies are only accessed through discussion with consultants and are only available to children who are carefully screened and considered likely to have benefits that outweigh the risks (meaning, children who are unlikely to achieve remission using approved protocols).

Parents of cancer kids are constantly fundraising for as much research as possible. The contrast is startling, really.

As the parent of a kid who has needed serious medical intervention to avoid a 100% fatal-if-untreated outcome, resulting in both my child and I having shaky post-traumatic mental health, I simply cannot fathom why you wouldn’t do all you could to avoid making your child into a life long medical patient. I don’t think my daughter will ever have her ears pierced, she’s so traumatised by anything vaguely needle like.

Puberty blockers are injections and/or implants - they aren’t strawberry flavoured and given off a spoon like calpol.

A friend of my crowdfunded for an op for their daughter with cerebral palsy. It used to be an NHS funded one but as it’s life-improving rather than life-saving it was cut.

Their daughter’s walking has improved enormously, which in turn has improved her self esteem and her social interactions.

its endemic here but its the same most places I guess, it's just our breed of T*erf are very vocal

Helen Webberley on why the UK hasn't accepted trans ideology like the US and other countries have.

I am properly astounded that Carmichael announced so blithely that they had secured a very large grant to specifically study how their patients do in the long term, like the viewers should be reassured, instead of saying, as DP and I did, "How many kids have you done these medical experiments on, and for how long, and you had no idea what the ACTUAL results would be???!!!"

This is just one long smorgasbord of horrible revelations.

Floral - that was exactly my reaction too. Astonishing that Carmichael can't see it.

That's why the programme was so good. The TRAs can't complain it included TERFs because it didn't. It had the kiddie trans clinic and the struck off doctor as the two main interviewees. It's very softly spoken and it's the BBC.
It's perfect to stick on YouTube and share with GC Americans.

Yes seriously you wonder what difference it would have made to Jade if that ruddy school person got over themselves and said yes, absolutely you be an angel, with sparkly wings and halos, boys can wear anything they want to.

It was also briefly mentioned that Jade had had a very troubling childhood.

Who’s the commissioning group at the Tavistock and Portland? Who authoirised the funding of prescribing off label drugs to children. Who looked at the evidence, or lack of it?

Who’s the commissioning group at the Tavistock and Portland? Who authoirised the funding of prescribing off label drugs to children. Who looked at the evidence, or lack of it?

there's a lot of information on recent threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3509817-Times-16-2-1-9-Staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3510367-Tavistock-article-in-the-DM

How many kids have you done these medical experiments on, and for how long, and you had no idea what the ACTUAL results would be???!!!"

Whilst going along with the TRAs bullshit of blockers being harmless and reversible, seemingly.

Whilst going along with the TRAs bullshit of blockers being harmless and reversible, seemingly.

Well, quite.

"We don't know what effect this course of action will have, but the people who really want it assure us that it's completely fine. Ethics? I've heard someone use that word before, is it an acronym?"

I assume ethics, like facts and science, are transphobic.

What I still don't get, is that you can change your gender i.e. act, dress etc. like your perception of the opposite (or no) gender, without changing your sex. It's attempting to change your sex that is so very permanent. Why can't we encourage youngsters to explore different gender roles without permanent body changes?

RO I looked that up last night, it looks like it’s Camden CCG & the North Central London group.

@Jaxhog - we used to - look at pop in the 70-90s. Men in makeup and dresses, women playing guitars dressed in black leather. But I guess the way the world is now, whatever you do needs to be special and edgy.

These daft lads today are probably slapping on some lippy and thinking that’s all great until dad pulls out some photos from 1986 when he had long hair and wore eyeliner and wow - it’s not edgy and cool anymore.

It has to be more now. Gay isn’t cool anymore, unlessssssss - hey I’m male but I’m female! No no I’m a lesbian! And a woman! No an actual woman! What? How do I have sex then? With my lady willy of course you fool!

But but but I’m cool! I’m edgy! You don’t understand! I’m unique! And if you do t agree I will bash your eggshell like skull in with my pretty little baseball bat. Look I even painted it in the trans colours. What do you mean that the suffragette colours! Those bastards, now they steal our colours!

The Tavistock has a long history of unethical experimentation on vulnerable people that predates the transgender issue.

I am referring specifically to the "work" of some of their clinicians in relation to dissociative identity disorder (formerly multiple personality disorder) and to so called mental health professionals promoting the debunked belief in satanic ritual abuse (SRA).

The Tavistock and Portman NHS Mental Health Foundation Trust funded the development of the -centre for conspiraloonery and quackery- Clinic for Dissociative Studies, founded by the notorious quack Valerie Sinason and currently lead by the demented psychologist Rachel C Thomas.

You can read all about Rachel C Thomas here
greyfaction.org/rachel-c-thomas/

Valerie Sinason here
www.theguardian.com/society/2011/dec/11/carole-myers-satanic-child-abuse
www.justiceforcarol.com (a long but important read)
greyfaction.org/valerie-sinason/

Both Sinason and Thomas had previously worked extensively at the Tavistock as have many other conspiracy theorists promoting DID/MPD and SRA narratives.

My understanding is that there are many similarities between the Tavistock's involvement in SRA hoaxes, hysteria and quackery and malpractice and their involvement re transgender issue, specifically re the abuse of vulnerable, disempowered individuals.

In both situations it is difficult for people to stand up against the "true believers" in a culture where being a dissident could harm your career.

There are good people working at the Tavi as well as quacks. There are also well meaning professionals who simply believe what they are told in their professional training courses or who idealise their managers and clinical supervisors and have never thought to challenge them.

In fact one of the striking similarities between the Dissociative Identity Disorder / Multiple Personality Disorder narrative and that of transgenderism is the concept that rather than a "self" people consist of multiple aspects of the self who may be different genders and even ages.

There are various dubious models of "parts therapies" in which vulnerable people are invited to not simply explore different aspects of themselves but to give these aspects names and identities.

One notorious therapy of this sort is called Internal Family Systems. There are others.

I could write much more about this but I have to go out now

More later

Just another couple of links

Rachel C Thomas

www.eventscribe.com/2018/ISSTD/ajaxcalls/PresenterInfo.asp?efp=UE9MU1lJQ0k0NjA2&PresenterID=398056&rnd=0.1556631

www.eventscribe.com/2018/ISSTD/ajaxcalls/PresentationInfo.asp?efp=UE9MU1lJQ0k0NjA2&PresentationID=351780&rnd=0.8274118

www.clinicds.co.uk/dr-rachel-thomas-appointed-clinic-director

Re the Carol Felstead case

Anyone know if these drugs have been tested for safe use in children?

Dr Helen Webberley
@MyWebDoctorUK
Replying to
@newsalfox
,
@BBCPanorama
and 3 others
Ritalin, citalopram, quetiapine, zopiclone, diazepam, haloperidol, sertraline, fluoxetine. Nobody seems to blink an eye at these drugs that are prescribed to our gender dysphoric youngsters. But give them a puberty blocker and it’s 😳😳😳😳😳😳

I should also point out that there are loads of very weird, irrational conspiracy theory videos about the Tavistock on youtube from 9/11 truthers and people who believe the Queen is a lizard.

The truth is that there is both good and bad practice at the Tavistock. The bad practice there is very bad indeed but has nothing to do with lizards, aliens or Davic Icke style conspiracies. There are however some extremely disturbing things going on at the Tavi and have been for many years.

The history of psychiatry is full of people who think they have found the answer. Then it becomes like a religion, with evangelists, followers, heretics.

hoodathunkit I know DID is a pretty "weird" idea to most people, but it's an actual thing - and I know because I have DID. I haven't been anywhere near quackery or clinics convincing me of it - have just lived with this and then found it had a name and others experience it. It's a mental health condition. However, I know that having other gendered and aged identities is a trauma reaction, not a material reality, so e.g. I would not expect somebody to allow my child alters a place at a primary school or my male alters into a male survivors group, because I know my material reality is as an adult female and so do they, I assume (it's a pretty obvious fact, observable to all). The difference in the trans stuff is that it demands people deny material reality and the services and provision which relates to the identity are claimed for people to whom the services/provisions are irrelevant.

Just watched the end of the programme now. Jade and Reuben seem like lovely young people. Reuben seemed more mature and grounded than many I know twice their age! I really hope things work out well for jade whatever they decide.
Oh dear poor kids - you ache for them.

If anyone is interested in exploring this issue further, these videos are informative re the satanic panic