R4 Today about the Tavistock report/resignation

[Cwenthryth]

On now

Tide turning, I’m sure of it!

It's excellent so far.

Marcus Evans was very good.

Polly Carmichael is floundering a bit here. She's acknowledging that the rubbishing of Bell's report was unjustified but desperately trying to avoid saying it. She is not a friend to critical people who want to find what's going on.

"I don't think social contagion is a helpful word." Hmmm. She's not saying it doesn't exist is she.

Just listening

Interviewer is good!

The more PC talks, the clearer it becomes that she doesn’t have a clue.

She said that they're under pressure both from the "pro-trans lobby" (I thought using that term was forbidden?) and from critical voices.

"Pro trans lobbyist" added admitted under pressure

"Not to get pulled into polarised arguments"

There's a problem, that's my understanding from the discussion

That man’s twitter account is about to melt isn’t it?

Jaw on floor. Thinking huge backlash for ME, but go him.

Missed it as between car/work but noticed that it had vanished from the news headlines (was there at 06:00 but not subsequently), very pleased it wasn't pulled at the last minute - was getting ready to complain! Will listen later.

The general public are being informed and educated, this can only be a very good thing.

I want to see this being discussed publicly and the pro-trans lobby facing a choice of either using their familiar tactics of abuse, threats, silencing, and violence or debating on the facts and for this to be happening as the public is watching.

Fantastic! I think this is a huge change in the way things are reported and on a very mainstream news programme. It would be great if we all wrote in, so they discussed again

Bump.when will Jenny Murray be let out?

For anyone who wants to catch it when it becomes available on Sounds it was broadcast at 07.46-ish, just after the Thought for the Day, which incidentally was a female cleric talking about the importance of gay people and acknowledgement of gay relationships within the Christian church.

We have just high-fived in our GC household because this is a huge, huge brick being pulled from the whole tottering trans edifice. No one mentioned safeguarding, no one mentioned child abuse but it was all there looming as an issue. Social contagion and the influence of social media was in there, and there was no hauling in of a trans spokesperson to huff and puff and deny it all and insist that we were all transphobic.

For the very first time the BBC have actually treated this subject as what it is — a safeguarding issue — and Justin Webb just went at it in a businesslike, properly journalistic way. Contact details here:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qj9z/contact

Please Tweet, email or whatever to say well done at ruddy last.

I predict that there will be a formal enquiry into Mermaids and Stonewall announced by the end of April. I hope the Lottery Fund committee are already feeling nervous at colluding with child abuse. I want lots of heads on platters.

Hmm...... the woman presented just asked Damien Hinds about this as well, tacked on after other stuff..... saying “we’ve heard this morning calls for external oversight of the Tavistock”.... yeah, from your fellow presenter though! Came across a bit odd, they’re supposed to be reporting the news, not making it.

TRA public meltdowns only help the GC cause.

I thought Justin was good but there's too much ducking and diving, skirting around the issue, carefully thought out wording such as the reason for not using the word "hypothetical " whilst not admitting they were real cases etc. Talk of long term consequences or difficult decisions re treatment but I think that treatment should be spelled out for the public to hear.

Still it's a start. A few cages will have been rattled.

That was brilliant
I was screaming Pullllllllllllllllllll at the radio.

DD1 best friend is a transboy. I'll call them Tom. Last time I ranted about them I used the "incorrect" pronouns, and got deleted.

Here are the facts about Tom
Their dad died (strange circumstances) when they were 13.
They have always been pressured academically, in the 11+ exam they threw up and failed, despite being gifted.

They have a history of self harm
Their brothers also self harm
Their middle brother was always seen as the clever one
They are extremely high achieving academically
They are into anime, and like many teens spend loads of time on the internet.
Gender Incongruence happened at in year 8, no mentions before.
They have been diagnosed with anxiety, and often carry around comforters (teddies etc)
They are under CAMHS

They are an extremely kind, caring, individual. An extremely loyal friend to DD. They always share a room on trips etc. I am genuinely terrified that the only thing holding Tom back from demanding irreversible medical changes is the fact that they have a sensible, kind (but gc) group of real life friends. I'm terrified once at university they'll be lost.

I want to burn the binder they wear. Present how you want. Live how you want. Just don't hurt your own bodies.

I don't think Tom wants to be a man, whatever the hell that even means, they just don't want to be a woman.

It breaks my heart.

Marcus what you have done protects every child like Tom.

It was appropriate to ask Damien Hinds as transgenderism is included in the proposed plans for sex and relationship curriculum in schools.
Hinds did not seem especially well-prepared and claimed that headteachers would know how best to respond to pupils questioning their gender identity.
Trans lobby groups such as Stonewall and Mermaids Charity have had significant influence on education policy already.
Tavistock clinicians have identified significant issues and pressure from Mermaids Charity.

current threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3516346-Compulsory-trans-lessons-in-primary-schools-what-will-this-involve

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3516454-twinkl-has-fallen-for-the-rainbow-guff

see also:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training

Cern, I don’t know for sure, but maybe others have also called for external oversight of the Tavistock?

Thanks I'll try to listen on catch-up later.

This really is quite extraordinary, almost like the house of cards is actually coming down. GIDS have been under enormous pressure to apply the "affirmation only" approach (practised in America) and have been at the forefront of the huge (endemic) rise of children and young adults becoming trans.

For GIDS to wobble, it's not just a slight wobble. "I didn't get where I am today without knowing a slight wobble when I see one" - CJ. It's huge.

The BBC, The Guardian are all listening now.

Re Damien Hinds,
"The Secretary of State is responsible for the work of the Department for Education, including:

early years
children’s social care
teachers’ pay
the school curriculum
school improvement
academies and free schools
further education
higher education
apprenticeships and skills"

www.gov.uk/government/ministers/secretary-of-state-for-education